New Rule, and The Emperor's New Clothes

[Nulls Wife]

:P We Changed Our Minds :P
(For the better)

Originally stated by the rules in Se (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10)ction 7 (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10), users could not alter the images of users unless permission was given beforehand. Well, we have decided to change this slightly with the addition of 7.5.1:"All presented information above is to be interpreted as-is unless the item in question is an image posted on XForgery. In the event that the personal information is an image posted on XForgery, the owner of said image(s) must explicitly announce whether or not they want their image(s) being edited by others. In the event that this is not announced, the image(s) of that user will not require that user's permission to edit and use. Note that this only affects images posted on XForgery. Images posted elsewhere will require permission for use."Basically, you're free to use another user's images as you please unless they've stated otherwise. Remember to note this only applies to images posted on XForgery.
Remember: If you don’t want your images being posted by anyone, please make a note under your image when you post it.Somewhere Over the Rainbow….Wait??We here at Xforgery are equal in all aspects, so why do we need colors to show our differences? The answer is that we don’t, so they are now gone…kinda. Staff and XF Member will visually look the same. Behind the scenes, staff will still have the moderator abilities that are required to so the site can continue to run smoothly, but there is no need to have members looked at differently just because they help the site run.

So what if someone really needs a staff member??
First off, there are very few times someone really needs a staff member. Every member of Xforgery can help or direct any other member to a place they can get help. Secondly, we have installed a new mouse over feature for people who really want to know who is who. Simply place your mouse over a member’s name and if they are staff, their staff position will be shown in a pop up.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/Jpec07/mouseovertitle.jpg

But now the site looks boring... :(
Never fear, we have covered this too. With only few XF Points every member can choose to be almost any color they want. Null Parameter has to finish the code for this still, but soon you should be seeing colors in profiles and posts for sure and multiple other locations as soon as the code is finished.
Be looking for this new feature to be available in the shop soon.

50 XF Points the first week after they are available in the shop.
100 XF Points after the first week.


But what about supporters??
The only thing that has changed with supporter is the color of your name. All the perks are still the same and there will be their supporter badge under their name, which will still show up on every post they make.

Please be patient while we finish the rest of the changes. The site will look awesome again with a pretty rainbow of color. Don’t Forget- We Are XForgery

[Blue]

Never fear, we have covered this too. With only few XF Points every member can choose to be almost any color they want.

I'm going to be bright red.

[philthyphillup]

Im thinking I'll be a dull orange. Wait...

[Cerity Insighed]

Hmm. I can haz aqua?

[mista tipsta]

so.. i spent 500 XF Points to be a colored member, because i really dont care too much about the colored forum or the blogs (though i do enjoy the Custom Title), and now it's taken away from me? thats pretty awesome :grump:

[philthyphillup]

so.. i spent 500 XF Points to be a colored member, because i really dont care too much about the colored forum or the blogs (though i do enjoy the Custom Title), and now it's taken away from me? thats pretty awesome :grump:

That's why cash is way better. For one you help with paying for the site, and you don't have to waist your XF points. Plus its a lot easier to get :P

[Prod]

Ooh, i can be coloured again!

[Sir Shazmanoid]

I'm definitely looking forward to the XF's currently active users page to be a big rainbow. XD

If only I knew this sooner though... then I wouldn't of given out 50 XF points I had. :P

[Coyote1023]

Does the shoutbox notice make sense now? "Double Rainbow all the way across the sky."

[Gunnergrunt]

Good idea, staff guys.

[Tim]

I'm going to use the hottest brightest most annoying color you can imagine.

I'm pretty sure the fad will be bright red right off the bat. :onfire:

[Boston]

I'm going to be bright red.

I'm feeling the same way lol

[Octopocalypse]

I'm going bright green if possible

[RPAL]

Can only the user that sets the color see it? This is the only thing i can figure out because your taking the colors away and letting people put the colors back? Kinda Confusing...

Or do you mean you can't change your name color, only other places can you change colors? Every post in this thread seems like they want to change their name color. Moar confusing...

[Gunnergrunt]

Gunnergrunt Gunnergrunt Gunnergrunt
Gunnergrunt Gunnergrunt Gunnergrunt
Gunnergrunt Gunnergrunt Gunnergrunt
Gunnergrunt Gunnergrunt Gunnergrunt

[DeathsFriend22]

Can only the user that sets the color see it? This is the only thing i can figure out because your taking the colors away and letting people put the colors back? Kinda Confusing...

Or do you mean you can't change your name color, only other places can you change colors? Every post in this thread seems like they want to change their name color. Moar confusing...

It'll be just like the old colors only you can have whatever color you want. In other words, everyone can see it and it shows up everywhere with your name.

[RPAL]

Then that's silly because the whole point was to remove the colors.

[Gunnergrunt]

Then that's silly because the whole point was to remove the colors.

I think the point is to remove the meaning behind the colors

[Tim]

Then that's silly because the whole point was to remove the colors.

The whole point is to make colors accessible to everyone. Why should the staff have all the fun?

[RPAL]

I think the point is to remove the meaning behind the colors

But it would be even more confusing for a new person to see everyone with random colors...

IDK i must be on something because it seems to be making sense to everyone else but me.

[Nulls Wife]

I think the point is to remove the meaning behind the colors
Exactly

[RPAL]

Okay then, is there any off limit colors like ones that will blend with any style?

[Null Parameter]

Okay then, is there any off limit colors like ones that will blend with any style?
There will be a few, like the background colors, we have yet to come up with a final list of limits.

[Gunnergrunt]

Okay then, is there any off limit colors like ones that will blend with any style?
You mean a color that wouldn't show up with certain site themes?

EDIT: ooh, nice choice of color Nullet!

[Nulls Wife]

You mean a color that wouldn't show up with certain site themes?

EDIT: ooh, nice choice of color Nullet!
Exactly. No Black or White because of Black Ice and Default colors.

[RPAL]

Nulls color is #123456 <--- lol

At least that's what my computer says. Is that color off limits? ...because i want it...

[Tim]

But it would be even more confusing for a new person to see everyone with random colors...

IDK i must be on something because it seems to be making sense to everyone else but me.

I disagree. As a matter of fact, I can compare this move to how the IGN boards did away with their colors. On those boards, all staff/mods/VIP's were the only ones to have a colored name. When they made it available to everyone, the only difference you could tell between a staff member and a regular user was the font. Staff members were bold, italic, or a combination of both, while regular users were just default font. While we looked into doing that, we concluded it would of defeated the purpose of why we did away with the colors in the first place.

As stated above, you have the mouse over feature and a link showing who is active staff. We don't need a color/font to tell everyone that.

[Null Parameter]

Nulls color is #123456 <--- lol

At least that's what my computer says. Is that color off limits? ...because i want it...
Yeah, I just typed that in quickly to test everything. XD

[E Inglourious 3]

I'm going to be bright red.

Am I the only one who lold at that one? ;P

[Nulls Wife]

No!

[Null Parameter]

50 XF Points the first week after they are available in the shop.
You can now purchase your colors in the XF Shop! Enjoy!

[Ribbo MKII]

Am I the only one who is really confused about the coding?
Yeah, thought so. Help.

[Null Parameter]

Am I the only one who is really confused about the coding?
Yeah, thought so. Help.
What coding are you talking about?

[Nulls Wife]

Can you post a list of the color codes or something that lists them please?

[Ribbo MKII]

Can you post a list of the color codes or something that lists them please?

Pretty much took the words out of my mouth.

[Shell]

Holly, Ribbo:

http://www.december.com/html/spec/colorhex.html

[Ribbo MKII]

Thankyou Shell.

[Sir Shazmanoid]

This isn't really important but I just noticed... awesome job using the MB :P cones in the Header Holly. :thumbup: You should do that more often. ;-]

[mista tipsta]

Holly, Ribbo:

http://www.december.com/html/spec/colorhex.html
or This (http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2940/bgcolors1536se2.png) or This (http://www.visibone.com/color/kilochart_900.jpg) and some Shades of Gray (http://www.visibone.com/color/kilochart_900.jpg)

[RPAL]

I think i'm going to go with Hot Pink or this

[RightSideTheory]

:P We Changed Our Minds :P
(For the better)

Originally stated by the rules in Se (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10)ction 7 (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10), users could not alter the images of users unless permission was given beforehand. Well, we have decided to change this slightly with the addition of 7.5.1:"All presented information above is to be interpreted as-is unless the item in question is an image posted on XForgery. In the event that the personal information is an image posted on XForgery, the owner of said image(s) must explicitly announce whether or not they want their image(s) being edited by others. In the event that this is not announced, the image(s) of that user will not require that user's permission to edit and use. Note that this only affects images posted on XForgery. Images posted elsewhere will require permission for use."Basically, you're free to use another user's images as you please unless they've stated otherwise. Remember to note this only applies to images posted on XForgery.
Remember: If you don’t want your images being posted by anyone, please make a note under your image when you post it.

Oh wow, I'm glad someone didn't fight for that in the first place.


/sarcasm

[HomerSPC]

Could the staff's names be bolded as well as having the mouse over? It's a small but yet effective way to tell who has the power.

Oh wow, I'm glad someone didn't fight for that in the first place.


/sarcasm

<3

[Nulls Wife]

Could the staff's names be bolded as well as having the mouse over? It's a small but yet effective way to tell who has the power.


We talked about that but then realized that instead of 'colored' member and 'regular' members there would be 'bold' members and 'regular' members. That is really what we are trying to get away from.

[Null Parameter]

Could the staff's names be bolded as well as having the mouse over? It's a small but yet effective way to tell who has the power.
We actually tried that initially and then decided against it because it still set us apart. We'll see how things go and then maybe come back to subtleties like that.

[philthyphillup]

I like the new system. Now everyone has a little more personality. I also like seeing all the new cool colors! Thanks everyone for the work you put into it!

[Coyote1023]

I like the new system. Now everyone has a little more personality. I also like seeing all the new cool colors! Thanks everyone Null for the work you put into it!

fix'd

[Nulls Wife]

fix'd

Lol, I was going to do that earlier but I forgot. Thanks!

[philthyphillup]

fix'd

:P Yeah, I just wasn't sure if he was the only one or not. Thanks Null! You dun good

[Sir Shazmanoid]

We talked about that but then realized that instead of 'colored' member and 'regular' members there would be 'bold' members and 'regular' members. That is really what we are trying to get away from.

Keep in mind no matter what there will always be "Staff" and "Non-staff", and some people may always see the staff as being above the 'normal' members. But as I've said, I do like what you're doing here, it's a nice little gesture to let the members know they're all important. But there will always be some people who naturally see some people 'over' others. Whether it be there personal opinions on them, or their rank. (And I don't recommend taking out the rank system. XD)

[GodlyPerfection]

Keep in mind no matter what there will always be "Staff" and "Non-staff", and some people may always see the staff as being above the 'normal' members. But as I've said, I do like what you're doing here, it's a nice little gesture to let the members know they're all important. But there will always be some people who naturally see some people 'over' others. Whether it be there personal opinions on them, or their rank. (And I don't recommend taking out the rank system. XD)

That's what XForgery has always been about is equalizing the difference between staff and members. Staff and members all have the same rights. The difference is that staff happen to have responsibilities tied to their rank. While sure people will still have that sense of "Null is an admin so he is all powerful and can make all the final decisions" the point of this is to remove the obvious point that Null is an admin and make it more difficult for people to come to these conclusions. In that way people get treated more equally. In a lot of sites you see a lot of the newer members sucking up to ranked members hoping that if they have a suggestion it will be taken with greater weight since they are now friends with said staff member.

It was a great addition to the site and works great towards XF's goals as a community. Many thanks Null. I can't wait to spend my default given 50 points on changing my color :).

[Shell]

XForgery: The Communistic Website.

[Kenny M]

XForgery: The Communistic Website.

QFFT!!!!

[Shell]

Oh, by the way Null, nice job calling yourself an Emperor, or whoever came up with that name.

[Null Parameter]

Oh, by the way Null, nice job calling yourself an Emperor, or whoever came up with that name.
Where did anybody say anything about being an Emperor...?

[Jpec07]

Oh, by the way Null, nice job calling yourself an Emperor, or whoever came up with that name.

Actually, Shellshock, I was making a reference to the children's story in which the pompous, arrogant, narcissistic emperor forces a tailor to make him an outfit the likes of which had never been seen by human eyes. So the tailor cleverly contrives a scheme where he leads the emperor on for a month while he's "crafting" the garment, telling him of its splendor and everything about it. The day comes when the garment is to be presented, and the tailor convinces the emperor that the garment he's created has surpassed the ability of humans to behold, and so appears invisible. The emperor is astonished, and quickly "adorns" the "garment," and throws a parade to display its beauty. However he is quickly ashamed, because he realizes he's been had, and learns his lesson well. If anything, by labeling ourselves as the "emperor," we have drawn shame to ourselves in this light. There is nothing to be upset about here, because if anything, it brings the staff more to level with the rest of the community. Or are you just crying for attention?

Besides which, first you accuse us of being communistic, then you accuse us of being a dictatorship. Which one is it?

[RightSideTheory]

Actually, Shellshock, I was making a reference to the children's story in which the pompous, arrogant, narcissistic emperor forces a tailor to make him an outfit the likes of which had never been seen by human eyes. So the tailor cleverly contrives a scheme where he leads the emperor on for a month while he's "crafting" the garment, telling him of its splendor and everything about it. The day comes when the garment is to be presented, and the tailor convinces the emperor that the garment he's created has surpassed the ability of humans to behold, and so appears invisible. The emperor is astonished, and quickly "adorns" the "garment," and throws a parade to display its beauty. However he is quickly ashamed, because he realizes he's been had, and learns his lesson well. If anything, by labeling ourselves as the "emperor," we have drawn shame to ourselves in this light. There is nothing to be upset about here, because if anything, it brings the staff more to level with the rest of the community. Or are you just crying for attention?

Besides which, first you accuse us of being communistic, then you accuse us of being a dictatorship. Which one is it?

I'll say communistic. Though Communistic countries have a dictator.

[Blue]

Actually, Shellshock, I was making a reference to the children's story in which the pompous, arrogant, narcissistic emperor forces a tailor to make him an outfit the likes of which had never been seen by human eyes. So the tailor cleverly contrives a scheme where he leads the emperor on for a month while he's "crafting" the garment, telling him of its splendor and everything about it. The day comes when the garment is to be presented, and the tailor convinces the emperor that the garment he's created has surpassed the ability of humans to behold, and so appears invisible. The emperor is astonished, and quickly "adorns" the "garment," and throws a parade to display its beauty. However he is quickly ashamed, because he realizes he's been had, and learns his lesson well. If anything, by labeling ourselves as the "emperor," we have drawn shame to ourselves in this light.

So if the reference is correct, these "new colors" are similar to the garments being worn by the emperor. Then if the reference were to truly follow the story, the XForgery community was the "pompous, arrogant, narcissistic emperor" and we forced the staff (the tailors) to give us these new colors (the garment). But now we are being convinced by the staff (the "tailor") that our new colors (the "garment") are something very astonishing and wonderful, as the emperor did. And if we follow the story used as a reference even farther, then I should presume that we will quickly be ashamed of these new colors, as did the emperor, and thus learn our lesson. And although you did not mention the ending (assuming you were referring to the widely known Hans Christian Andersen version), I can say that the emperor, due to a remark made by a child in the crowd he is passing by, realizes that he may, in fact, be wearing something very ridiculous, but continues with his held held high. If the analogy is still true, then XForgery members (the emperor) will realize their mistake, but continue forward, knowing that it was they who caused the problem.

Your reference says that the community made the problem and will suffer from the actions that they forced upon the staff. And that hardly seems like the message you were trying to instill.

[Jpec07]

I'll say communistic. Though Communistic countries have a dictator.

Lolwut? You need to read up on what Communism actually is, comrade...

So if the reference is correct, these "new colors" are similar to the garments being worn by the emperor. Then if the reference were to truly follow the story, the XForgery community was the "pompous, arrogant, narcissistic emperor" and we forced the staff (the tailors) to give us these new colors (the garment). But now we are being convinced by the staff (the "tailor") that our new colors (the "garment") are something very astonishing and wonderful, as the emperor did. And if we follow the story used as a reference even farther, then I should presume that we will quickly be ashamed of these new colors, as did the emperor, and thus learn our lesson. And although you did not mention the ending (assuming you were referring to the widely known Hans Christian Andersen version), I can say that the emperor, due to a remark made by a child in the crowd he is passing by, realizes that he may, in fact, be wearing something very ridiculous, but continues with his held held high. If the analogy is still true, then XForgery members (the emperor) will realize their mistake, but continue forward, knowing that it was they who caused the problem.

Your reference says that the community made the problem and will suffer from the actions that they forced upon the staff. And that hardly seems like the message you were trying to instill.

Ultimately, Blue, the point of it is that the staff is on a level with the rest of the community, and this change is made to make that even more evident. If you feel like spinning it such that I'm insulting everyone here with your own interpretation, then by all means please continue.

'sides which, I wasn't even thinking of anything quite so deep when I made it. I was just trying to think of a witty title that was better than "Two Things You All Should Know." :P

[GOG TOXIC]

How do you get the colour code for the name?

[Blue]

Ultimately, Blue, the point of it is that the staff is on a level with the rest of the community, and this change is made to make that even more evident.

That has nothing to do with the story at all. If you're going to remain a Pencil Pusher, you're going to need better references that actually apply to the message. And if thinking of witty references is beyond your level, I would just stick with the basic "Two Things You All Should Know" styled titles.

[wiggums]

I'll say communistic. Though Communistic countries have a dictator.
Wrong. True communist nations have no leader/government in place as a head. So therefore it can be said that there has never been a true commie nation.

[RightSideTheory]

So if the reference is correct, these "new colors" are similar to the garments being worn by the emperor. Then if the reference were to truly follow the story, the XForgery community was the "pompous, arrogant, narcissistic emperor" and we forced the staff (the tailors) to give us these new colors (the garment). But now we are being convinced by the staff (the "tailor") that our new colors (the "garment") are something very astonishing and wonderful, as the emperor did. And if we follow the story used as a reference even farther, then I should presume that we will quickly be ashamed of these new colors, as did the emperor, and thus learn our lesson. And although you did not mention the ending (assuming you were referring to the widely known Hans Christian Andersen version), I can say that the emperor, due to a remark made by a child in the crowd he is passing by, realizes that he may, in fact, be wearing something very ridiculous, but continues with his held held high. If the analogy is still true, then XForgery members (the emperor) will realize their mistake, but continue forward, knowing that it was they who caused the problem.

Your reference says that the community made the problem and will suffer from the actions that they forced upon the staff. And that hardly seems like the message you were trying to instill.

http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/pourmecoffee/y0Mtvy595Evs9MXLATZDpNVs9Uv2Rd6uthcGBe19q5IEcao6jKl9ZUFLBYZj/the_more_you_know2.jpg

[Soren515]

Another victory for Xforgery. A way for newer members to be confused about who is actually staff. After I was gone for a week and came back to freaking weird colors I was very confused. A few questions though?

What is the perk of being a staff member now? Should the staff not be rewarded for their efforts? They take on extra responsibilities for what?

The old system gave them a distinction that they were not better than other members but that they were there to help other members. It showed that they were there for the site's service. It was a badge of honor that you were selfless for the people around you. Now you are taking that away from them.

Also how should I, as a new member, know to identify a staff member without their color? This mouse over system is really something you would not expect as a way to identify staff because it is inefficent and not very common in other websites.

My last and final reason for this post is to point out supporters. How are they being recognized for monetary donation to the site? You are taking the most recognizable sign of a supporter away. Yes I understand that you have a banner under their name but it doesn't really stand out like a color would. You are undermining yourself because supporters help pay for the site and you are taking their perks away.

[Blue]

http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/pourmecoffee/y0Mtvy595Evs9MXLATZDpNVs9Uv2Rd6uthcGBe19q5IEcao6jKl9ZUFLBYZj/the_more_you_know2.jpg

Every meme is sure to have its moronic followers. They're really no different from religion.

[wiggums]

Another victory for Xforgery. A way for newer members to be confused about who is actually staff. After I was gone for a week and came back to freaking weird colors I was very confused. A few questions though?

What is the perk of being a staff member now? Should the staff not be rewarded for their efforts? They take on extra responsibilities for what?

The old system gave them a distinction that they were not better than other members but that they were there to help other members. It showed that they were there for the site's service. It was a badge of honor that you were selfless for the people around you. Now you are taking that away from them.

Also how should I, as a new member, know to identify a staff member without their color? This mouse over system is really something you would not expect as a way to identify staff because it is inefficent and not very common in other websites.

My last and final reason for this post is to point out supporters. How are they being recognized for monetary donation to the site? You are taking the most recognizable sign of a supporter away. Yes I understand that you have a banner under their name but it doesn't really stand out like a color would. You are undermining yourself because supporters help pay for the site and you are taking their perks away.
Staff members help out. Those are the perks. To know that your helping others and the site.

To be a supporter is to donate, or contribute to the site. People should be encouraged to do so not by getting a colored name, but just by knowing that they are a positive influence on this place.

[GodlyPerfection]

Exactly what wiggums said. You don't need to be pointed out at all and this encourages people to just ask the community questions. Everyone here is helpful enough to answer questions. And if anything you can find out the admin or someone can tell you how to find the admin. We are all helpful here.

[Tim]

Another victory for Xforgery. A way for newer members to be confused about who is actually staff. After I was gone for a week and came back to freaking weird colors I was very confused. A few questions though?

What is the perk of being a staff member now? Should the staff not be rewarded for their efforts? They take on extra responsibilities for what?

Staff members are chosen because they want to contribute to the site on a regular basis. We also make sacrifices ourselves to ensure you guys are happy. Staff members are not high and mighty, we are here to serve you, the active member. Those staff members who do it simply for the color or power will not be staff for very long. I can guarantee you that.

The old system gave them a distinction that they were not better than other members but that they were there to help other members. It showed that they were there for the site's service. It was a badge of honor that you were selfless for the people around you. Now you are taking that away from them.

It's actually quite the opposite and I've seen this from most boards. Staff members or colored members for that matter are held to a ridiculously higher standard for all the wrong reasons. While some dig the e-fame, it actually splits the community apart because you have colored members and staff who, in the perception of the regular user, will always have more influence in the community. For some users, they will go to great lengths to ensure they stand out in the crowd in order to win the hearts of the staff or be on their good side. This type of scenario is not the case here at XF. Our goal is to eliminate this stereotype as much as possible while further improving the site. This change is a step closer to that direction.

The decisions we have made so far is based on user feedback of some sort.

Also how should I, as a new member, know to identify a staff member without their color? This mouse over system is really something you would not expect as a way to identify staff because it is inefficent and not very common in other websites.

We have this link (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showgroups.php) right below the spam collector link that lists all the staff members, review team members, retired staff, and even the users that created an XFOG. Based on the feedback so far, we may want to make this link a little bit more noticed, or add more. Maybe rename it to "Contact a staff member" or something else that stands out.

My last and final reason for this post is to point out supporters. How are they being recognized for monetary donation to the site? You are taking the most recognizable sign of a supporter away. Yes I understand that you have a banner under their name but it doesn't really stand out like a color would. You are undermining yourself because supporters help pay for the site and you are taking their perks away.

Instead of retyping what wiggums said and make it sound all fancy, I'm going to quote it, because he pretty much nailed it:

To be a supporter is to donate, or contribute to the site. People should be encouraged to do so not by getting a colored name, but just by knowing that they are a positive influence on this place.

[Soren515]

Staff members help out. Those are the perks. To know that your helping others and the site.

To be a supporter is to donate, or contribute to the site. People should be encouraged to do so not by getting a colored name, but just by knowing that they are a positive influence on this place.

Then for how do we know who is a postive influence or who isn't? Everyone just seems to be a rainbow of confusion now? How am I supposed to know who is a someone who cares about the site without recognizing them in a way the whole community can see it?

[wiggums]

Then for how do we know who is a postive influence or who isn't? Everyone just seems to be a rainbow of confusion now? How am I supposed to know who is a someone who cares about the site without recognizing them in a way the whole community can see it?
Why do you need to know who is helpful? Whenever I donate to a corporation or a cause I do so anonymously. It's about doing the good deed, not getting recognition for it.

EDIT:

vv that too vv

[Tim]

Then for how do we know who is a postive influence or who isn't? Everyone just seems to be a rainbow of confusion now? How am I supposed to know who is a someone who cares about the site without recognizing them in a way the whole community can see it?

Hi, my name is...

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/6326/supporterv2dx1.png

[Blue]

Hi, my name is...

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/6326/supporterv2dx1.png

I can buy supporter and be a total asshole to everyone and give new people wrong information, misleading and confusing them, but because I have that supporter badge, you're saying that I'm a positive influence?

[wiggums]

I can buy supporter and be a total asshole to everyone and give new people wrong information, misleading and confusing them, but because I have that supporter badge, you're saying that I'm a positive influence?
I don't know many people who would donate to a site that they are going to be a dick to everyone in...

[Tim]

I can buy supporter and be a total asshole to everyone and give new people wrong information, misleading and confusing them, but because I have that supporter badge, you're saying that I'm a positive influence?

"Blue" and "positive influence" in the same sentence is about the equivalent of dividing by zero. ;)

Also, a total asshole wouldn't have gone such great lengths to provide this thread for the community (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9854).

[Blue]

I don't know many people who would donate to a site that they are going to be a dick to everyone in...

Let me clarify that, I can obtain supporter. There are other ways to becoming a supporter than just buying it. An asshole might not buy supporter, but he can win and/or earn it. Refer to The Ghetto (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3230) as an example.

"Blue" and "positive influence" in the same sentence is about the equivalent of dividing by zero. ;)

Also, a total asshole wouldn't have gone such great lengths to provide this thread for the community (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9854).

We both know that it was a hypothetical situation. And you still didn't answer the question.

[Coyote1023]

How does color point out helpful members in the community? Look at some other sites, there are staff members that are truly assholes to everyone, but they are colorful. Your logic doesn't hold. Try using a point that actually argues against getting rid of color, not how certain colors or emblems may not mean that someone is helpful.

I for one don't care that we removed staff colors, I actually pushed for it. The fact is, all of the current staff either agreed with the change or didn't mind it, if they did, they could have said something in the chat. So that eliminates your "taking away the benefit" part of your argument.

Your next point was confusion with new members. Of course it will be different because all other sites have a color hierarchy. But the fact still remains, why should a new member look at or admire myself, Null, or any other colored member more than say Kuroda, Nick, RST, or anyone else? There is no reason, they should look up to those that help them or treat them well, not those that have prestige.

/end

[Blue]

But the fact still remains, why should a new member look at or admire myself, Null, or any other colored member more than say Kuroda, Nick, RST, or anyone else?

Because people like me exist. You're lowering the staff to the level of the assholes and the trolls, and your raising the assholes and trolls to that of the staff. I know the staff members still have their powers, but there is no visible hierarchy.

[wiggums]

Because people like me exist. You're lowering the staff to the level of the assholes and the trolls, and your raising the assholes and trolls to that of the staff. I know the staff members still have their powers, but there is no visible hierarchy, which is very important.
If people are assholes, you can tell by the way they act. Same thing with respectable people. Do you walk around with a shirt that says "I'm a dick!" so people can know before they encounter you? I say let people create their own opinions of people through their encounters.

[Blue]

If people are assholes, you can tell by the way they act. Same thing with respectable people. Do you walk around with a shirt that says "I'm a dick!" so people can know before they encounter you? I say let people create their own opinions of people through their encounters.

Alright, then. Because I can create my own opinions, I think that everyone on XForgery (except for Shell, Thomas, Soren, and Sotha) are complete and absolute idiots and that no matter who they are they should not be respected. And because I think this, I will no longer show any repsect to anyone, even if they are staff, and will preach to every new member that the staff are complete assholes that are not to be trusted, and that all the new members should listen to me, instead.

It's a hypothetical situation that excercises the extremes people will go to, but people are people, and they have the potential to act that way. And as for your statement about wearing a sort of label, it's true that a person wouldn't go around wearing that on his shirt, but a police officer will wear a uniform and badge, which is the same exact thing. The authority needs a visible way to show their authority. This new system is like having an army, but allowing them to wear regular clothes, and then telling the citizens that they can go print a .pdf to find out all the people that are enlisted.

[wiggums]

Alright, then. Because I can create my own opinions, I think that everyone on XForgery (except for Shell, Thomas, Soren, and Sotha) are complete and absolute idiots and that no matter who they are they should not be respected. And because I think this, I will no longer show any repsect to anyone, even if they are staff, and will preach to every new member that the staff are complete assholes that are not to be trusted, and that all the new members should listen to me, instead.

Alright. That's your choice. If you actually think that would work, then go for it.


It's a hypothetical situation that excercises the extremes people will go to, but people are people, and they have the potential to act that way. And as for your statement about wearing a sort of label, it's true that a person wouldn't go around wearing that on his shirt, but a police officer will wear a uniform and badge, which is the same exact thing. The authority needs a visible way to show their authority. This new system is like having an army, but allowing them to wear regular clothes, and then telling the citizens that they can go print a .pdf to find out all the people that are enlisted.For this I disagree when you said "its the same exact thing." This isn't real life. This isn't a place you have to be. Everyone chooses to come here. This isn't actual people's lives. This is a place for people to discuss halo! As a result the leaders are looked upon very differently. The internet has totally different rules.

And the staff still have their "identification of authority."

[Blue]

Alright. That's your choice.
For this I disagree when you said "its the same exact thing." This isn't real life. This isn't a place you have to be. Everyone chooses to come here. This isn't actual people's lives. This is a place for people to discuss halo! As a result the leaders are looked upon very differently. The internet has totally different rules.

The internet does have different rules, but the way people think and the way people work mentally do not change. If anything, people hide behind a mask of anonymity on the internet, and because the rules of society are not established on the internet, they act horribly. But you weren't clear in your explanation. Just how exactly are leaders looked upon differently?

[wiggums]

The internet does have different rules, but the way people think and the way people work mentally do not change. If anything, people hide behind a mask of anonymity on the internet, and because the rules of society are not established on the internet, they act horribly. But you weren't clear in your explanation. Just how exactly are leaders looked upon differently?
Their opinions are made blindly. Forgehub for gods sakes! Corruption that's praised and unquestioned! Too much superiority and a dictatorship is created instantly! Tell me you do not see a problem there.

[PsychoBucket]

Alright, then. Because I can create my own opinions, I think that everyone on XForgery (except for Shell, Thomas, Soren, and Sotha) are complete and absolute idiots and that no matter who they are they should not be respected. And because I think this, I will no longer show any repsect to anyone, even if they are staff, and will preach to every new member that the staff are complete assholes that are not to be trusted, and that all the new members should listen to me, instead.

Go ahead and do that. You wont fool anyone that has been around for a while, and it won't take long for new members to realize the type of person you are. If the new member is willing to listen to you over all the other helpful members on this site, they are already a lost cause.

[Tim]

Alright, then. Because I can create my own opinions, I think that everyone on XForgery (except for Shell, Thomas, Soren, and Sotha) are complete and absolute idiots and that no matter who they are they should not be respected. And because I think this, I will no longer show any repsect to anyone, even if they are staff, and will preach to every new member that the staff are complete assholes that are not to be trusted, and that all the new members should listen to me, instead.

With that mindset, your days here are numbered my friend. Whatever respect people had for you is pretty much gone with this statement. Then again you've made it clear several times before that you could care less what people thought about you, so this isn't news; however, if you plan to go down this route and cause trouble, action will be taken, and I don't want to use the last resort. If you push us, we'll have no choice.

It's a hypothetical situation that excercises the extremes people will go to, but people are people, and they have the potential to act that way. And as for your statement about wearing a sort of label, it's true that a person wouldn't go around wearing that on his shirt, but a police officer will wear a uniform and badge, which is the same exact thing. The authority needs a visible way to show their authority. This new system is like having an army, but allowing them to wear regular clothes, and then telling the citizens that they can go print a .pdf to find out all the people that are enlisted.

You're comparing staff members on an internet forum to authorities and service members who get paid to uphold the law from idiots and corrupt beings on an everyday basis. Our responsibilities on this forum is nothing compared to them, so making that comparison is about the equivalent of comparing apples to oranges.

[Blue]

Their opinions are made blindly. Forgehub for gods sakes! Corruption that's praised and unquestioned! Too much superiority and a dictatorship is created instantly! Tell me you do not see a problem there.

There is, in fact, a problem with Forge Hub, but that's not at all what we're discussing here. But even before this recent change, we were nowhere near the level of Forge Hub, and even the possibility of getting close to that level was not even in question. The bottom line is that we had a system that worked for us, and that people were happy with. And if this whole thing was created to stress the importance of equality, then why was it a decision only made by the staff? Why were we not asked about it? I see no equality in that. If the community had been asked, and we had a proper discussion, and came to a proper conclusion as a whole , I would have a much better view on this.

Go ahead and do that. You wont fool anyone that has been around for a while, and it won't take long for new members to realize the type of person you are. If the new member is willing to listen to you over all the other helpful members on this site, they are already a lost cause.

Once again, a staff member shies away from actually addressing the point that I'm proving.

You're comparing staff members on an internet forum to authorities and service members who get paid to uphold the law from idiots and corrupt beings on an everyday basis. Our responsibilities on this forum is nothing compared to them, so making that comparison is about the equivalent of comparing apples to oranges.

But the principle is the same, and you can't deny that.

With that mindset, your days here are numbered my friend. Whatever respect people had for you is pretty much gone with this statement. Then again you've made it clear several times before that you could care less what people thought about you, so this isn't news; however, if you plan to go down this route and cause trouble, action will be taken, and I don't want to use the last resort. If you push us, we'll have no choice.


The phrase "hypothetical situation" is a phrase you need to learn.

[wiggums]

There is, in fact, a problem with Forge Hub, but that's not at all what we're discussing here. But even before this recent change, we were nowhere near the level of Forge Hub, and even the possibility of getting close to that level was not even in question. The bottom line is that we had a system that worked for us, and that people were happy with. And if this whole thing was created to stress the importance of equality, then why was it a decision only made by the staff? Why were we not asked about it? I see no equality in that. If the community had been asked, and we had a proper discussion, and came to a proper conclusion as a whole , I would have a much better view on this.


Because the staff still is the authority. I think they are the ones who should worry about their own perks. If they want to take away something from themselves, then why should we decide that? I think that they should only ask our opinion on something that actively affects us. We still know who they are, they aren't changing anything that is going to affect how the site works. If they were to somehow raise their own authority without our knowing, I would have felt the same as you.

[Tim]

The bottom line is that we had a system that worked for us, and that people were happy with. And if this whole thing was created to stress the importance of equality, then why was it a decision only made by the staff? Why were we not asked about it? I see no equality in that. If the community had been asked, and we had a proper discussion, and came to a proper conclusion as a whole , I would have a much better view on this.

Everytime this argument has come up in the last two days, I can't help but just laugh. Why you ask? Because what you just said is pretty god damn hypocritical. If you hate the color change so much, you would of boycotted it by not spending the XF points to get the colored name. Instead, you, like a good majority of the users, are sporting a splash of color on their user name. As a matter of fact, every user that has made a big stink about this has purchased a color, or even better, changed their minds when they saw their green/blue/yellow name in the shoutbox for the first time.

If you don't like something or have strong opinions about it, don't purchase it. Period. Boycott it, and get people to do the same. Instead, you guys are making yourselves look like an ass.

The phrase "hypothetical situation" is a phrase you need to learn

Burning your bridges with the community is something you need to quit doing.

[wiggums]

If you don't like something or have strong opinions about it, don't purchase it. Period. Boycott it, get people to do the same. Instead, you guys are making yourselves look like an ass.
Not to mention making them look like they just want to get their own color and the power that used to come with it.

[Blue]

I think that they should only ask our opinion on something that actively affects us.

And you think that what is happening right now does not actively effect us? It all boils down to the ultimate contradiction that has evolved from this whole ordeal. The staff made a decision about the community to make it fair, but they didn't ask the actual members what they thought. The staff figured that it was best for everyone, but "everyone" consists of not only the staff, but the regular members, whom they never truly asked . They exercised their power unequally in the "name of equality."

[Zak]

If I might add on as well, now people will not strive for staff for just the color and popularity. Hopefully, only people that truly would like to do the work and help the site will become staff. We will stop getting people who work for 3-4 weeks and then retire just to get the purple color *cough cough*.

Honestly, if your really that upset, feel free to migrate to forgehub or where ever. They will be happy to give you no voice AT ALL. I believe we try to make this site as community driven as possible. Just because we make ONE decision on our own every once and a while doesn't mean we're evil.

[Zak]

And you think that what is happening right now does not actively effect us? It all boils down to the ultimate contradiction that has evolved from this whole ordeal. The staff made a decision about the community to make it fair, but they didn't ask the actual members what they thought. The staff figured that it was best for everyone, but "everyone" consists of not only the staff, but the regular members, whom they never truly asked . They exercised their power unequally in the "name of equality."
There is no point in which you actually answer this question within this post

[Blue]

If you hate the color change so much, you would of boycott it by not spending the XF points to get the colored name. Instead, you, like a good majority of the users, are sporting a splash of color on their user name.

Oh, did I forget to mention that I really don't care about this change? I mean, yes, I think it's stupid and that we should have talked it over, but I know that we're way too far into this to go back. I'm just arguing for two reasons. The first is the sake of debating and arguing. I'm sure you know how much I love doing this. I could spend all day doing this. It's a good way to exercise the mind and/or my writing skills. The second reason, however, is because there are a lot of people who are angered by this and they won't speak up, maybe because they are afraid of ruining their image, or because they just aren't that good at arguing/debating. Someone has to do it for them, and it might as well be me.

And the reactions from some people and the extent they will go to prove me wrong is actually quite hilarious.

[wiggums]

And you think that what is happening right now does not actively effect us? It all boils down to the ultimate contradiction that has evolved from this whole ordeal. The staff made a decision about the community to make it fair, but they didn't ask the actual members what they thought. The staff figured that it was best for everyone, but "everyone" consists of not only the staff, but the regular members, whom they never truly asked . They exercised their power unequally in the "name of equality."
Alright. Something changed. We have colored names now. That means nothing to us though. The only time color meant something was when staff had it exclusively. The only true change was for the staff: losing their color that illustrated their power. Now color means nothing. Anybody can be any color, and no one cares. That change really doesn't matter to me... It's nothing but a customization choice now. It's like when Bungie allowed the community to unlock recon.
What it represented was gone quick. I can't believe forums have evolved to the point that color means so much. The staff still have the same authority. The community still coexists. XForgery is still XForgery, just with MORE color! You of all people should love that.

[PsychoBucket]

Once again, a staff member shies away from actually addressing the point that I'm proving.
Well lets see . . . You are talking about a "hypothetical situation", but the only person who would act out this "hypothetical situation" is you. I would say that I directly addressed the point that you failed to prove.

[Tim]

Oh, did I forget to mention that I really don't care about this change? I know that we're way too far into this to go back. I'm just arguing for two reasons. The first is the sake of debating and arguing. I'm sure you know how much I love doing this. I could spend all day doing this. It's a good way to excercise the mind and/or my writing skills. The second reason, however, is because there are a lot of people who are angered by this and they won't speak up, maybe because they are afraid of ruining their image, or because they just aren't that good at arguing/debating. Someone has to do it for them, and it might as well be me.

I would like these people to step up and voice their opinion then, so long as the conversation remains civil. XForgery has always been about the feedback of this community. Take for example the rep system: it was almost axed, but thanks to community feedback, it's still around for the community to use. If people are really pissed at what happened, then they need to speak up.

As of right now, 3 people so far have questioned this move, and I'm even questioning their status because they themselves are sporting a color. If you want something to change, you need those voices to come out of hiding. Boycott the system, don't purchase the color. Only then, will we question this latest change.

[Blue]

Only then, will we question this latest change.

See, I don't see the staff "questioning" this change being a possibility at all. You made the decision without the community's input, so why should their input after the decision is made be any more important? And I highly doubt Null and the other moderators are going to go back and re-work the system and personally distribute back all the XF points to every individual that has spent them on the color change. The fact of the matter is that you shouldn't go around preaching equality to everyone, when nothing about this whole process was in any way equal. It defeats the whole purpose of this change.

Well lets see . . . You are talking about a "hypothetical situation", but the only person who would act out this "hypothetical situation" is you. I would say that I directly addressed the point that you failed to prove.

There was a second paragraph diretly related to the first that you did not reply to or mention one bit.

[Tim]

See, I don't see the staff "questioning" this change being a possibility at all. You made the decision without the community's input, so why should their input after the decision is made be any more important? And I highly doubt Null and the other moderators are going to go back and re-work the system and personally distribute back all the XF points to every individual that has spent them on the color change. The fact of the matter is that you shouldn't go around preaching equality to everyone, when nothing about this whole process was in any way equal. It defeats the whole purpose of this change.

You're already admitting defeat when I just gave you and the community the tools needed to overturn this if what you said about people not speaking up is true.

[Artifex]

Well, I'm against the color thing but I didnt not speak up because I was afraid, it was because, as Blue suggested, you did the decision without us so there is no need to.

1) There is no reason to give everyone color, it just makes knowing who is staff and who isn't harder, regardless of whether there is a forum page or post for it.

2) Anyone tooting a horn about not being equal because staff have a color needs to re-evaluate what they care about in life.

3) You did not, to my knowledge, even discuss this with the community as Blue has suggested.

[Blue]

You're already admitting defeat when I just gave you and the community the tools needed to overturn this if what you said about people not speaking up is true.

I'm fighting for a cause I don't care for, for people who don't speak for themselves, so I think I'm allowed to change my opinion. And I really don't want to have to fully restate and re-explain that opinion, so it is, once again, the fact that you "shouldn't go around preaching equality to everyone, when nothing about this whole process was in any way equal. It defeats the whole purpose of this change."

And you have yet to address that, or give me any reason as to why it is fair and why the staff's actions do not contradict what they were trying to do.

[wiggums]

And you have yet to address that, or give me any reason as to why it is fair and why the staff's actions do not contradict what they were trying to do.
I feel I answered this question in my last post. I feel the change was insignificant for us. For us, all they did was add a silly customization option. In their perspective, they lowered themselves so that they could be closer to the community. They have the right to change something that doesn't affect us significantly. We are trying for more equality but not total equality. The staff still run this place.

[Blue]

In their perspective, they lowered themselves so that they could be closer to the community.

See, this is going to get us stuck on an endless loop. I already told you the effects of lowering the staff to the level of regular members. When the staff lowers themselves, they bring the ordinary members to their level, as well, and those members weren't hand-picked because of their loyalty and respect, they can be total assholes.

They have the right to change something that doesn't affect us significantlyBut who's to say what is significant and what is not? I think the change was very significant, while others, such as yourself, do not.

And besides, I want an actual staff member to answer me, as that question was really intended for the staff.

[wiggums]

See, this is going to get us stuck on an endless loop. I already told you the effects of lowering the staff to the level of regular members. When the staff lowers themselves, they bring the ordinary members to their level, as well, and those members weren't hand-picked because of their loyalty and respect, they can be total assholes.

But who's to say what is significant and what is not? I think the change was very significant, while others, such as yourself, do not.

And besides, I want an actual staff member to answer me, as that question was really intended for the staff.
Right. I understand I'm not as credible for this discussion as someone who actually made the decision. I'll leave this to the people involved.

[PsychoBucket]

There was a second paragraph diretly related to the first that you did not reply to or mention one bit.
Well Blue . . . I would not expect you to understand. You seem to be the type to tear someone down any chance you get. XF is a community, and a community should be able to help each other out. There is not many times a member actually NEEDS a staff member. If they need help, they should feel free to ask any member, and that member should be willing to help or point them in the correct direction to get help. When someone actually needs a staff member, we are not hard to find. We are not hiding. We are like normal members, just with more responsibilities. Just because we do these thing, it doesn't mean we should separate ourselves from the rest of the community.

[Tim]

I'm fighting for a cause I don't care for, for people who don't speak for themselves, so I think I'm allowed to change my opinion. And I really don't want to have to fully restate and re-explain that opinion, so it is, once again, the fact that you "shouldn't go around preaching equality to everyone, when nothing about this whole process was in any way equal. It defeats the whole purpose of this change."

And you have yet to address that, or give me any reason as to why it is fair and why the staff's actions do not contradict what they were trying to do.

XForgery has been operating like this before we even got here. You of all people, should know this. Since I've been staff here (it's almost been a year now), I've seen ideas come to life thanks to community feedback, which is why I was attracted to this place to begin with. XForgery to me, has been run by the community, not the staff. I've always seen it this way since I registered here. Most forums I've been on don't even care about the community, not....one...bit. You say something bad to a staff member on some of these other forums and your ass is banned. Take a look at the Bungie forums, the IGN forums, any of the forging forums around the Halo community. This place is mellow compared to those sites.

We don't consider ourselves above you guys, but we have made decisions in the past like this one with positive feedback. Like I said, these decisions have been based on community feedback. Technically, you're already getting a preview of what could be happening to XForgery in the future thanks to the suggestions forum. While a good majority of the ideas are indeed destroyed, the ideas that have some weight, could contribute to the site, and it's something that we can possibly do is the main things we talk about. We can open some ideas to the community in the future for feedback, but some things have to be done behind the scenes. Again, you know this first hand.

I can see where some people think the color change is a major change to the site, and it's a decision that happened suddenly, but like I said before, we need you guys to kick us in the ass once in a while if you think we fucked up. The only sign we get if an idea sucks is if it's rejected immediately, but even without the warning, the new color system has been met with a positive reception. Again, if these people are not happy with it, they need to speak up.

As much as I'd like to argue with you Blue so your brain can be stimulated, we're beating a dead horse at this point. So here's what I'll do: I'm going to create a thread in the suggestions forum asking for feedback from this latest change. I encourage the staff members to sit back and digest this feedback. Depending on the feedback, we will take action from there. So I encourage those people who are afraid to speak up, this is your time to shine.

Link to thread (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9925)

:threadclosed: