MLG Map Section?

[DeathstarsOG]

Is there any possibility that an MLG map section will be available anytime soon? It seams that most of the maps are just thrown in the heroic section and were there alot more maps, you'd never find what you were looking for. I have a few maps that i'd like to submit but would like to see a section dedicated to MLG as i'm sure others would as well.

[WoozyJoJo]

This was discussed heavily before, here's the reason we didn't:

--What defines an MLG map?
You'd first think competitive gameplay with usage of MLG gametypes. But, who's to judge competitive gameplay? The author? The problem with that is, there's many maps that aren't competitive and quite frankly suck that get put in the MLG section.

But; even though it was discussed before, I'm going to leave this open as I'm interested to see what other members have to say.
(also, welcome to forgery)

[Null Parameter]

As Woozy said, those are the reasons we hadn't had one before.

I'm willing to look into having a section, if somebody can provide a valid argument for one. But, at this point in time, we don't have many MLG Maps posted.

[Morphine]

This was discussed heavily before, here's the reason we didn't:

--What defines an MLG map?
You'd first think competitive gameplay with usage of MLG gametypes. But, who's to judge competitive gameplay? The author? The problem with that is, there's many maps that aren't competitive and quite frankly suck that get put in the MLG section.

Umm, aren't MLG maps defined by the weapons allowed on each map? (including the game types of course)

The same weapons appears on all of the main mlg maps with the same settings in accordance with MLGpro.com.
http://www.haloscene.com/images/MLGTimeSheet.png

[PsychoBucket]

Well that just shows it is different for each map. It also lacks information about how many of each weapon and the clips. I think you would need to find something better before we could add MLG.

[Ganye]

Umm, aren't MLG maps defined by the weapons allowed on each map? (including the game types of course)

The same weapons appears on all of the main mlg maps with the same settings in accordance with MLGpro.com.
http://www.haloscene.com/images/MLGTimeSheet.png
I think he meant competitive: We've had this discussion before.

[PsychoBucket]

I think he meant competitive: We've had this discussion before.

No I think he meant MLG, he said "MLG" multiple times.

[Ganye]

No I think he meant MLG, he said "MLG" multiple times.

He also mentioned competitive gameplay numerous times.

Anyways, I say no to an MLG forum. If anything just add an MLG option to the gametypes and then we can use the Map Search option to look for MLG maps.

[PsychoBucket]

He also mentioned competitive gameplay numerous times.

I think we are talking about different people.


If anything just add an MLG option to the gametypes and then we can use the Map Search option to look for MLG maps.

That's a good Idea!

[Ganye]

I think we are talking about different people.


We're not.

[Morphine]

Well that just shows it is different for each map. It also lacks information about how many of each weapon and the clips. I think you would need to find something better before we could add MLG.

Actually it showing how similar the weapon selection is for each map. It uses the same 6 weapons, 2 grenade types, and 2 types of power ups. Even though some of the weapons are only on certain maps, it's still narrowing it down to 8/38 possible weapons, grenade, and equipment choices.

As for the number of weapons and clips I don't believe the MLG regulations are or should be that strict, this is more of something that would be better suited for selection based on the balance and play of the map through testing.

I personally don't even like MLG but I still think it's fairly easy to identify and categorize.

I think he meant competitive: We've had this discussion before.

I don't know why you would assume this?(although i like your idea of the mlg type section) the entire conversation has been about MLG maps and it's listed in the thread title... I understood it as him simply referring to MLG as being categorized by the term 'competitive maps'. But there is only one way to truly understand his meaning...woozy?

[Shell]

I agree with Ganye for the MLG Gametype, or just add a Hardcore map forum.

(No Thomas, not hardcore pr0nz.)

[DeathstarsOG]

Yes i do mean MLG just to clear that up. MLG has very specific rules and standards as to what is actually viewed as MLG "worthy". Also if you guys are worried about crappy maps in the MLG section that don't follow MLG guidlines, thats where your moderators come in and even more knowledgable members that can let the poster know his map doesn't follow MLG guidlines. I realize right now you guys may not "need" an MLG section however, in the future if this site does well it will need to support all map types. I only design MLG maps, so no section for them will make me not want to post them and even not continue to subscribe to this site as i am a member of two other forums that do have defined sections for MLG where i know my maps will be seen.
I just believe this may improve your member count with a little more organization of maps.

[DeathstarsOG]

I don't mean to double post but this section:
http://www.xforgery.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=7

is a terrible way of organizing maps. You've now created 3 times the subforums needed. You never want to organize by the original map itself. You should organize by the type of map it is. As in Aesthetic, Competetive, MLG, Mini-game, Casual and Race maps. That way people know what kind of maps they'll be looking at as some people do not like MLG maps but looking on foundry you'll probably see alot. Or some people dont like race maps but looking on foundry you might see alot. I keep saying foundry because most maps will be made there and with your layout that one section is going to be way overcrowded. Sorry if i sound like i'm trying to run your forum, thats not what i mean to sound like, but the most well known forums for forging all are designed this way and thats partly why they do so well. I do like how you guys have the preview picture of the map just outside the thread. Anyways, i'm done talking. Let me know what you guys think.

[Ganye]

Yes i do mean MLG just to clear that up. MLG has very specific rules and standards as to what is actually viewed as MLG "worthy". Also if you guys are worried about crappy maps in the MLG section that don't follow MLG guidlines, thats where your moderators come in and even more knowledgable members that can let the poster know his map doesn't follow MLG guidlines. I realize right now you guys may not "need" an MLG section however, in the future if this site does well it will need to support all map types. I only design MLG maps, so no section for them will make me not want to post them and even not continue to subscribe to this site as i am a member of two other forums that do have defined sections for MLG where i know my maps will be seen.
I just believe this may improve your member count with a little more organization of maps.

We were talking about Woozy, not you.

I don't mean to double post but this section:
http://www.xforgery.com/forum/forumd...daysprune=&f=7

is a terrible way of organizing maps. You've now created 3 times the subforums needed. You never want to organize by the original map itself. You should organize by the type of map it is. As in Aesthetic, Competetive, MLG, Mini-game, Casual and Race maps. That way people know what kind of maps they'll be looking at as some people do not like MLG maps but looking on foundry you'll probably see alot. Or some people dont like race maps but looking on foundry you might see alot. I keep saying foundry because most maps will be made there and with your layout that one section is going to be way overcrowded. Sorry if i sound like i'm trying to run your forum, thats not what i mean to sound like, but the most well known forums for forging all are designed this way and thats partly why they do so well. I do like how you guys have the preview picture of the map just outside the thread. Anyways, i'm done talking. Let me know what you guys think.
This has been discussed before. And honestly, who decides what's Competitive or Casual? I've had a map on Forgehub I thought to be Competitive moved to Casual. Also, Racing Maps are Mini-Games, and as such get placed in that subforum. The Map Finder really comes into play here.

[Null Parameter]

We have no intention to change the base structure of our map forums. Yes, other sites organize theirs differently, but that is not the reason they do well. The only other site that really matters in the whole scheme of this discussion is ForgeHub, because ForgeHub is who sets the standards.

Everyone that comes here compares us to ForgeHub and other forging sites. What ForgeHub does is what people are used to, and therefore what other sites also adopt. Other sites don't do well because of their forum structure, they do well because they adopt the structure of another forum.

We don't seek to be like other sites. We here at Forgery like the way that our site is organized, for the exact reason that people at FH like theirs; we've grown to know it this way and like it this way. For those people that come here (and we've had plenty) and refuse to give the site a chance because of the forum structure, so be it. If you are going to base a community on how it is setup visually, then you are being way too closed minded.

I say give things a chance, let them sink in. You will learn to deal with, or even like, the forum structure. Like Ganye said, we have options to get past browsing the forums in that manner if it bugs you that much. Try the Map Search (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=59).

As far as making more categories, I, again, have no problem creating more, like MLG, if the situation fits and the reasons are good. But personally, a refusal to adopt a different forum because of a lack of the structure you like, is not a good reason.

[DeathstarsOG]

Well usually casual maps are usually infection based but not all the time. Other casual games would be like Juggernaught. And racing maps are not mini-games. Racing is usually a VIP thing with check points. Mini-games are usually like pinball, dodgeball etc. Competetive usually deals with slayer/KOTH/oddball/flag/territories/bomb. And of course MLG would be all MLG gametypes. As you can see, this categorizes by there gametypes supported thus letting people know what type of maps they'll be looking at.

[Thomas]

I don't mean to double post but this section:
http://www.xforgery.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=7

is a terrible way of organizing maps. You've now created 3 times the subforums needed. You never want to organize by the original map itself. You should organize by the type of map it is. As in Aesthetic, Competetive, MLG, Mini-game, Casual and Race maps. That way people know what kind of maps they'll be looking at as some people do not like MLG maps but looking on foundry you'll probably see alot. Or some people dont like race maps but looking on foundry you might see alot. I keep saying foundry because most maps will be made there and with your layout that one section is going to be way overcrowded. Sorry if i sound like i'm trying to run your forum, thats not what i mean to sound like, but the most well known forums for forging all are designed this way and thats partly why they do so well. I do like how you guys have the preview picture of the map just outside the thread. Anyways, i'm done talking. Let me know what you guys think.
By all means, we appreciate input from members, so we don't and will not ridicule you for your input. We have the set-up how it is now (with the many sub-forums underneath the map packs) because before we had it as you suggested, just with "Aesthetic" "Mini-Games" etc... and also brought along a section for the Legendary maps which introduced conflict when submitting a map.

The forums are designed to make it easy for you to submit maps into the appropriate category, and when you want to look for a map you can use our custom-coded Map-Finder.

Overall, if we were going to implement support for MLG maps, it would more than likely be with the supported gametype and without a dedicated sub-forum. Sorry.

[Null Parameter]

And again, who is to define these categories? Yes, you defined them right there, but I don't agree with all of your definitions.

I say that Mini-Games are those games that require a certain gametype or set of rules and are usually meant for having fun. Well......... Racing Maps fit into that category.

And there are plenty of maps that support the Slayer/KOTH/etc... gametypes that I would definitely not call "Competitive" maps.

(Our last posts were close together, so I'm not sure if you saw it or not)

Thomas, I think that part is negotiable. I have no problem creating an additional sub-forum for MLG if the need arises. To Be Discussed.

[Ganye]

Well usually casual maps are usually infection based but not all the time. Other casual games would be like Juggernaught. And racing maps are not mini-games. Racing is usually a VIP thing with check points. Mini-games are usually like pinball, dodgeball etc. Competetive usually deals with slayer/KOTH/oddball/flag/territories/bomb. And of course MLG would be all MLG gametypes. As you can see, this categorizes by there gametypes supported thus letting people know what type of maps they'll be looking at.

Okay? I've had numerous maps that used KOTH, Slayer, Territories, CTF AND Assault all be moved from Competitive to Casual and vice versa. Casual and Competitive is too opinionated. Racing IS a mini-game, because you don't race in a First Person Shooter. And when you do, it's as a side thing, thus a mini-game. MLG is obvious, we've discussed this.

[CostlyAxis]

Well usually casual maps are usually infection based but not all the time. Other casual games would be like Juggernaught. And racing maps are not mini-games. Racing is usually a VIP thing with check points. Mini-games are usually like pinball, dodgeball etc. Competetive usually deals with slayer/KOTH/oddball/flag/territories/bomb. And of course MLG would be all MLG gametypes. As you can see, this categorizes by there gametypes supported thus letting people know what type of maps they'll be looking at.
The keyword you've used is "usually." While Infection is an almost guaranteed casual game, it can also be competitive since the basics of it is one team grows at the expense of another until the offensive team wins out. I've played far more casual KOTH and Slayer games than competitive ones, so to me, those are usually casual to me. The majority of CTF games I've played have been casual unless of course you get the people who can't have a fun time.

I've literally played less than twenty territory matches, but those too are generally casual. Oddball and Assault are objective so I throw that straight into casual.

Now that I think about it, the only thing I really believe to be competitive is MLG. The reason you might ask? This seems to be the only Slayer variant people can't seem to get over a missed shot in. So I believe MLG belongs strictly in the broader category.

As you can see, your definition of what casual and competitive is varies greatly to me.

Casual:
Slayer: 85%
KOTH: 92%
Territories: 62%
Assault: 81%
Infection: 98%
V.I.P.: 93%
etc...

Competitive:
Slayer: 15%
KOTH: 8%
Territories: 38%
Assault: 19%
Infection: 2%
V.I.P.: 7%
etc...

Mini Games:
Anything using a set of rules that either involve special killing conditions, or none:

Cats n' Mice
Race Tracks
etc....

If the map doesn't fit into the more specific categories available, just post it in the proper Map Pack forum.

[DeathstarsOG]

We have no intention to change the base structure of our map forums. Yes, other sites organize theirs differently, but that is not the reason they do well. The only other site that really matters in the whole scheme of this discussion is ForgeHub, because ForgeHub is who sets the standards.

Everyone that comes here compares us to ForgeHub and other forging sites. What ForgeHub does is what people are used to, and therefore what other sites also adopt. Other sites don't do well because of their forum structure, they do well because they adopt the structure of another forum.

We don't seek to be like other sites. We here at Forgery like the way that our site is organized, for the exact reason that people at FH like theirs; we've grown to know it this way and like it this way. For those people that come here (and we've had plenty) and refuse to give the site a chance because of the forum structure, so be it. If you are going to base a community on how it is setup visually, then you are being way too closed minded.

I say give things a chance, let them sink in. You will learn to deal with, or even like, the forum structure. Like Ganye said, we have options to get past browsing the forums in that manner if it bugs you that much. Try the Map Search (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=59).

As far as making more categories, I, again, have no problem creating more, like MLG, if the situation fits and the reasons are good. But personally, a refusal to adopt a different forum because of a lack of the structure you like, is not a good reason.


Making maps easy to find should be part of your organization. And having alot of people leave due to this bad organization is a bad thing for a forum especially a small forum. You are trying to get more members and from what i see a known complaint about map organization isn't dealt with. I guess i can stick to the other sites, just thought i'd check it out here and see what you have to offer. You can see how someone like myself that only designs MLG maps would not want to be here right? Even in your "map search" there is no option for MLG so that wouldn't help me. Just thinking of someways you can improve and bring more people to this site is to not be close minded yourself. The statement i put in bold explains why this site is so small. You don't care about what everyone cares about. You should be completely unbias to any type of map and allowing all legal ways of creating one.(no modded maps of course). And it's not that i dislike the forum structure, it is just a bad way to do it. The structure itself can stay the way it is for all i care, i was just trying to speak up about it being a new member to this site. I doubt that this thread will open up an MLG section because i'm sure it has been brought up before. I'm here for intelligent conversation so please do not take my posts the wrong way. More like constructive criticism. Also i'm not telling you to be like other forums cause of course you want to stand out, but the design must be in a way that any geek of the street can come in here and be able to find the maps he like without having to search a bunch of different sub-forums to find what he's looking for.

[DeathstarsOG]

The keyword you've used is "usually." While Infection is an almost guaranteed casual game, it can also be competitive since the basics of it is one team grows at the expense of another until the offensive team wins out. I've played far more casual KOTH and Slayer games than competitive ones, so to me, those are usually casual to me. The majority of CTF games I've played have been casual unless of course you get the people who can't have a fun time.

I've literally played less than twenty territory matches, but those too are generally casual. Oddball and Assault are objective so I throw that straight into casual.

Now that I think about it, the only thing I really believe to be competitive is MLG. The reason you might ask? This seems to be the only Slayer variant people can't seem to get over a missed shot in. So I believe MLG belongs strictly in the broader category.

As you can see, your definition of what casual and competitive is varies greatly to me.

Casual:
Slayer: 85%
KOTH: 92%
Territories: 62%
Assault: 81%
Infection: 98%
V.I.P.: 93%
etc...

Competitive:
Slayer: 15%
KOTH: 8%
Territories: 38%
Assault: 19%
Infection: 2%
V.I.P.: 7%
etc...

Mini Games:
Anything using a set of rules that either involve special killing conditions, or none:

Cats n' Mice
Race Tracks
etc....

If the map doesn't fit into the more specific categories available, just post it in the proper Map Pack forum.

You sir are 100% correct. There is a percentage that could fall in multiple categories, this is where the creator needs to use his head and decide where it belongs. Then if he doesn't realize he just posted a racing map in the MLG section the moderator can move his post where need be.

[Thomas]

You sir are 100% correct. There is a percentage that could fall in multiple categories, this is where the creator needs to use his head and decide where it belongs. Then if he doesn't realize he just posted a racing map in the MLG section the moderator can move his post where need be.
Our job (the administration) is to organize the forums so there is nothing unclear about where you should be placing your map(s). If you agree that Competitive vs. Casual is based upon what the creator sees from the map, then that would require each map in both categories to be tested and verified. This is extremely lengthy and still subjective.

We're doing out best to alleviate the issue and will take applying a new MLG map section into consideration but will leave the Competitive vs. Casual alone.

[Ganye]

Making maps easy to find should be part of your organization.
Personally, I've never had a problem with finding where to post my map as it is.
And having alot of people leave due to this bad organization is a bad thing for a forum especially a small forum. You are trying to get more members and from what i see a known complaint about map organization isn't dealt with.
I've been here since the very beginning of Forgery and I've never seen someone quit because of "map organization."
I guess i can stick to the other sites, just thought i'd check it out here and see what you have to offer.
So you judge us based off our map submission style? That really seems idiotic to me.
You can see how someone like myself that only designs MLG maps would not want to be here right?
No, I don't: Enlighten me, please.
Even in your "map search" there is no option for MLG so that wouldn't help me.
Read above posts. I suggested adding MLG to the Map Search a couple times.
Just thinking of someways you can improve and bring more people to this site is to not be close minded yourself.
You just lost respect. How are we being close-minded? By saying that our Map Submission systems work? And that Forgehub's submission system is opinionated?
The statement i put in bold explains why this site is so small. You don't care about what everyone cares about.
You've been here for what? Less than a week? We pay attention very much to what our members say, however certain things would not be in the best interest of the community are really aren't that high up on the list of priorities.
You should be completely unbias to any type of map and allowing all legal ways of creating one.(no modded maps of course).
How are we being biased? We categorize our Map Submissions based off Map Pack and then Map Type. That's not biased in the least.
And it's not that i dislike the forum structure, it is just a bad way to do it.
Double negatives for the win?
The structure itself can stay the way it is for all i care, i was just trying to speak up about it being a new member to this site. I doubt that this thread will open up an MLG section because i'm sure it has been brought up before.
It's been brought up that our Map Structure could use work numerous times: We've changed it three times, I believe.
I'm here for intelligent conversation so please do not take my posts the wrong way. More like constructive criticism. Also i'm not telling you to be like other forums cause of course you want to stand out, but the design must be in a way that any geek of the street can come in here and be able to find the maps he like without having to search a bunch of different sub-forums to find what he's looking for.
I've never heard of anyone having a problem with our Map Submissions structure, let alone since our latest change to it. And you insult us and call it constructive criticism. Uhm, no.

[Null Parameter]

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh about it, I didn't mean to do so.

Making maps easy to find should be part of your organization. And having alot of people leave due to this bad organization is a bad thing for a forum especially a small forum. You are trying to get more members and from what i see a known complaint about map organization isn't dealt with.
While I see your point that bad organization can be a hindrance, we don't see it as bad organization. Not only that, but we have done numerous things to help people navigate the maps more easily if they don't like the forum structure. Map Search (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=59) & Cooliris (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/faq.php?faq=cooliris#faq_usingcooliris).

I guess i can stick to the other sites, just thought i'd check it out here and see what you have to offer. You can see how someone like myself that only designs MLG maps would not want to be here right? Even in your "map search" there is no option for MLG so that wouldn't help me.
I can see how an MLG Map Maker would be deterred from posting on our site due to the lack of reference to MLG. But, as I said before, we've never had a need for an MLG category; and, again, we are extremely open to adding it.

Just thinking of someways you can improve and bring more people to this site is to not be close minded yourself. The statement i put in bold explains why this site is so small. You don't care about what everyone cares about.
We appreciate the fact that you are thinking of ways to improve our site, but, again, we are being open to new suggestions to adapt our current structure, but rearranging our forums is more work then we are able to devote. It requires recoding a lot of our site. I guarantee that if you went to any other site and suggested they changed, they would say the same thing. Especially those with custom coding to integrate stuff into the forum.

You should be completely unbias to any type of map and allowing all legal ways of creating one.(no modded maps of course). And it's not that i dislike the forum structure, it is just a bad way to do it. The structure itself can stay the way it is for all i care, i was just trying to speak up about it being a new member to this site. I doubt that this thread will open up an MLG section because i'm sure it has been brought up before.
Here sir, is where you are completely wrong. You know what they say about assuming, don't you? We are open to all types of maps, but to give each type of map its own section is preposterous. Should we then give a section to Puzzles and other random gametypes? You are concerned with MLG because that is what you do. Other people only make Puzzle Maps. We can't accomodate everyone to their exact specification.

The other area you are wrong in, as Thomas said, we are going to be adding the MLG section, both to the forum and the map search. We've heard your plea, and are answering. Not because people bitched enough, but because it makes sense. Which is the exact reason we are looking for.

I'm here for intelligent conversation so please do not take my posts the wrong way. More like constructive criticism. Also i'm not telling you to be like other forums cause of course you want to stand out, but the design must be in a way that any geek of the street can come in here and be able to find the maps he like without having to search a bunch of different sub-forums to find what he's looking for.
We've had plenty of people come in and completely loved our structure, so it is really just a matter of preference. Some people like it some don't, I'm sure it is just a matter of giving it a chance for others as well. We take criticism, don't get me wrong, we just have reasons for not changing, like every other site. We appreciate the input, and we will try to take or change everything we get into something that will see the light of day, but in the end, everything isn't feasible.

[DeathstarsOG]

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh about it, I didn't mean to do so.


While I see your point that bad organization can be a hindrance, we don't see it as bad organization. Not only that, but we have done numerous things to help people navigate the maps more easily if they don't like the forum structure. Map Search (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=59) & Cooliris (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/faq.php?faq=cooliris#faq_usingcooliris).


I can see how an MLG Map Maker would be deterred from posting on our site due to the lack of reference to MLG. But, as I said before, we've never had a need for an MLG category; and, again, we are extremely open to adding it.


We appreciate the fact that you are thinking of ways to improve our site, but, again, we are being open to new suggestions to adapt our current structure, but rearranging our forums is more work then we are able to devote. It requires recoding a lot of our site. I guarantee that if you went to any other site and suggested they changed, they would say the same thing. Especially those with custom coding to integrate stuff into the forum.


Here sir, is where you are completely wrong. You know what they say about assuming, don't you? We are open to all types of maps, but to give each type of map its own section is preposterous. Should we then give a section to Puzzles and other random gametypes? You are concerned with MLG because that is what you do. Other people only make Puzzle Maps. We can't accomodate everyone to their exact specification.

The other area you are wrong in, as Thomas said, we are going to be adding the MLG section, both to the forum and the map search. We've heard your plea, and are answering. Not because people bitched enough, but because it makes sense. Which is the exact reason we are looking for.


We've had plenty of people come in and completely loved our structure, so it is really just a matter of preference. Some people like it some don't, I'm sure it is just a matter of giving it a chance for others as well. We take criticism, don't get me wrong, we just have reasons for not changing, like every other site. We appreciate the input, and we will try to take or change everything we get into something that will see the light of day, but in the end, everything isn't feasible.

Thank you for having a conversation with me instead of the poster above you trying his hardest to belittle me about the same post. I fully understand where your coming from and was just trying to make a few suggestions. If there were an MLG section added, i would definately stick around as i would love to add my maps and input into this forum. I can also help with posting the MLG rules and guidlines for creating one as most poeple do not know the criteria needed. Once again, thanks for your professionalism.

[Ganye]

Thank you for having a conversation with me instead of the poster above you trying his hardest to belittle me about the same post. I fully understand where your coming from and was just trying to make a few suggestions. If there were an MLG section added, i would definately stick around as i would love to add my maps and input into this forum. I can also help with posting the MLG rules and guidlines for creating one as most poeple do not know the criteria needed. Once again, thanks for your professionalism.

Lulz. I posted in the same way as Null, just in a more opinionated way. Does that make me less professional? No. Everyone's opinionated: including most of your statements. Also, I'm not staff, I dun' need to be professional.;)

[DeathstarsOG]

You don't need to be an asshole either ;)

[Ganye]

You don't need to be an asshole either ;)

You obviously haven't met me: I'm Ganye, the local troll.

[Null Parameter]

Sadly Ganye, that is true.

As this issue is being worked on now and a solution has been reached, I am going to close the thread. If you have any more comments you can PM me with them, and/or ask me to reopen the thread.