A Cry For Help

[Coyote1023]

I come to you today with a heavy heart. It pains me to say that today, XForgery may never be the same as it once was. Every time someone leaves this place, it feels like losing a friend. That's what all of you are, you are people, my friends. You may make jokes about the internet not being "serious" or say that I am just overreacting, but the internet is life, it is a world where people aren't judged by the color of their skin, their outward appearance, or their lifetime achievements. This is a place where everyone has a chance to be equal, a place where you are judged by you character.

Now, the heart-wrenching news I have today is about two individuals that were here long before me. They were here before AZN, they were here before most of you ever came to this site. These two accepted every one of us with open arms. They helped me through tough times in my life, they were there when I needed someone, they are the kind of people that you hope to meet in your life and expect to stay close to the rest of it. Men, Women, XForgers, today I come to tell you that Chris (Null Parameter) and Holly may leave XForgery. This is one of those events that you never think about. This is like the death of a family member or the end of a relationship, you just don't want to think about it. But we have to, it is something that we cannot just go on pretending didn't happen. These two individuals have given so much to XForgery, more than many of you have and will ever know. They made this place loving and caring, they made this place a home.

These two leave us with a reason. When I first came here, XForgery was a place where everyone had a chance to be great. Everyone had a chance to become respected and loved. This is the XForgery that Chris and Holly knew and loved. We as a community have failed them. We let our human greed get into the way of a once great and loving place. What had happened since then? There is no reason for any of us to be acting how we are. We ourselves have created an environment where we push our problems to others and complain instead of fixing it ourselves. There is no one to blame for this but ourselves. Every single one of us has had something to do with it. Whether it be your constant annoyance, blatant disregard for the feelings of others, or your perpetual laziness, you all had something to do with it.

Why do we let trivial conflicts tear us apart? Why do we care only for ourselves and not for the community as a whole. Why are we all so selfish. Why do we let the human condition dictate our own actions? These are the questions that you should be asking yourselves at this very moment. Many of you know exactly what you did. Many of you won't care. You will just shrug this event off and go on, being your same imperfect self. In this world, perfection is not attainable, but you can attempt to be as perfect as humanly possible.

XForgery, I leave you with this: Is your own self-glory really worth the sacrifice of your own dear community?

[Zak]

Wait what? Are you saying people are doig stuff for rank?

[Capton Furgler]

So are you saying that XF is turning into Forgehub?

EDIT: Ok...I now see what your talking about. And it should turn around. No one really wants to see these two go. They are great people that brought other great people together.

[Coyote1023]

The members of XForgery are letting simple human desire get in the way of our great community. People are holding person grudges against eachother, influencing the way our system works in order to be lazy and ranting about the most childish things. People are acting immature and everyone should grow up so that I, and the rest of XForgery, won't lose these two great people.

[Zak]

Ok, I see what you mean. And I can agree.

[Obibital]

i understand what your saying, and I'm glad someone is recognizing the things that happen as an actual event.

although i haven't been here for a long time, i know that Null was a major part of XForgery, it was he that really got me into this site. similar to recent deaths in my family, i had not become very well acquainted with the person, therefore it did not affect me all to much. but i know that it will feel like something is missing from XForgery.

i thank you for bring my attention to this.

[l33tmeerkatslol]

IT'S A WEBSITE! It's not life dude

It may not be your life, but it's a big part of my life, and many others'.

[Skittlemeister]

True, this.

I'm pretty surprised that they are actually "leaving," this time.

[MNM1245]

XF and friends is a significant amount of my life. I have made lots of friends on here and made lots of sexual jokes with Null and Holly. I have met many people that are now good friends with me. I love talking to people on XF.

Null and Holly don't leave.

[fireskull66325]

Yes, but what is the recourse? Someone who is already doing it isn't likely to stop, and we can't really ban everyone that becomes argumentative.

Can we?

[Zak]

Yes, but what is the recourse? Someone who is already doing it isn't likely to stop, and we can't really ban everyone that becomes argumentative.

Can we?
Honestly, I think that our only hope is that evertime you see a flame war that you try to stop it through a friendly manner.

[Coyote1023]

Yes, but what is the recourse? Someone who is already doing it isn't likely to stop, and we can't really ban everyone that becomes argumentative.

Can we?

We can only hope that those who are acting like this will attempt to change for the good of the community. That is the only way that we can hope to improve... hence my "cry for help."

[CostlyAxis]

We can only hope that those who are acting like this will attempt to change for the good of the community. That is the only way that we can hope to improve... hence my "cry for help."
Are we talking about the member user base interacting online, or the actual site interactions?
So, I presume this has been said before since you note it as a quote?

Well, if it's not a quote, then I don't see the reason behind yourself posting this. No reason was given (explained below), and I also fail to see where these "conflicts" are occurring. I see members run around saying things back and forth, but none of it is serious in any manner (most of it is humorous even). This leads me to conclude that it wasn't necessarily the site that is the blame, but online interactions which would explain my lack of insight on this.

When I say that no reason was given, I mean it as I've yet to see anything that's being used as a reason. People will always ask questions and ask for more. That isn't new to the human race, and if you think it is, you live in an optimistic world. The community hasn't failed anyone, people just could never meet your demand.

A lovely quote from Madison: "If men were angels, no government would be necessary."

In other words, humanity is far from perfect (and must be constantly kept in-check). Don't think a site can be a utopia when the user base is human. I get tired of these types of posts that just try to shift blame to yet another person/group.
The members of XForgery are letting simple human desire get in the way of our great community. People are holding person grudges against eachother, influencing the way our system works in order to be lazy and ranting about the most childish things. People are acting immature and everyone should grow up so that I, and the rest of XForgery, won't lose these two great people.
You emphasized the "I" there and excluded yourself from the blame, and also emphasizing Utopian ideals. I think only one utopia succeeded and even then, they all died out. If this site cannot exist with the members being who they are, then where's the community?

/rage post that I wanted to save somewhere....

@ Null:
Well, I used to suggest ideas quite often, but after the last four (?) were shot down without even being given a chance, I don't see the reason to suggest more. One of my suggestions took about half a year to be put into place (confirmed sig limit), and another nearly a month (XF Pets optionable). Both were flat out said to be impossible to do yet have been done. My latest one is only alive because I'm keeping it alive (Poll of the Day).

On the feature thing, I have never participated in it. By the time the feature process came along, I was long and done with playing Halo 3 regularly. I won't nominate for the sake of increasing the nomination numbers. I have no backing in what I nominate.

So, if you want to say it this way, I'm completely dedicated to the site itself without the worries of Halo. I'm here as a part of the community, nothing more, nothing less. I've always been here, and the only indication I have of that is that my username is gray. Not a one of you (besides others who joined at the same time as me) would have suspected I had been here for so long when you first met me without that gray. I haven't done anything for gain.

more post to be saved, not done, meh

Costly, you have such a pessimistic view on things sometimes.

Yes, it was said that we couldn't do some of your suggestions, and guess what, that's because we couldn't. GASP! It was only through my learning outside of XF, after retiring, that I learned some advanced techniques that could alleviate those issues.
Which is why I will pretty much never suggest any ideas anymore. The complaint was that people are suggesting small scale ideas or reporting tiny errors that have been given answers to on several occasions. Ironically, when someone does suggest something that has a large scale effect, it's always denied as being impossible to do, or it's watered down.
You say that your ideas were shot down instantly, but you fail to mention the fact that before that almost every one of your ideas was taken into account and integrated into the site. You have 10 threads in the Suggestions Forum (not including the one for the Poll of the Day), and 8 of them have been resolved at one point or another and two still remain open. The only reason those two remain open? Technical demand/expertise. Both are huge projects that we don't have the man power to accomplish. Easy as that.
Poll of the Day was never given a chance (as you're oddly excluding); the slim skin was never even considered beyond "it's too difficult." Optionable XF Pets were put on delay for a good amount of time, and my original one with image resizing was deemed impossible just to be put into place sometime later. You personally made yourself oblivious to a vast majority of YouTube videos that were in widescreen until I pointed them out.

I'm just saying that what is being asked here is not what you're really wanting. Suggestions with meaning are too difficult, and suggestions that have no meaning are "dumb."
I'm sorry that you have unrealistic expectations for us. And you talk about members never being able to meet other people's demands? HA! Hypocrisy at it's finest.
I don't; I have never expected anything from you, or from anyone else. That's how I am in real life as well. Give me a partner and we'll split the work, but I secretly do their half as well as I don't trust them to do it themselves. I don't exactly have that option here.

I just expected better defined reasons as to why something is not possible besides "it's too much work" or "eh, we don't need it." (and then to say hypocrite that you do it later when someone else mentions it). I find it terribly odd that your name is always used in blackmail as well. The person who is said to have formed this community to what it is, being used as ransom.

[fireskull66325]

We can only hope that those who are acting like this will attempt to change for the good of the community. That is the only way that we can hope to improve... hence my "cry for help."

Indeed, my only point is that it's unlikely that will happen :/

[Coyote1023]

Interactions between members on the site.

[G043R]

Coyote... I under stand this thread is your Cry for help. I really love it. It has touched me and I have changed. I left Null's wife a message. To that point I will say you should have had this as a Locked thread and been a shout to the community to hear but not respond to. Many people are allowed to reply to this and some will gain and few will have their heart turned to stone.

I like the wake up call and I'm all for it. I am an individual... I came from FH... and I was recently banned for the desire to improve FH. I will commit this heart to now a Love that deserves it. Not to replace it... but Love that of which is Given and received.

... That being said WE all love XF for the things it is... the methods of how things are featured and how things are ran... I most loved that on my birthday many of you popped in and gave me a birthday shout. That meant the most to me... because I was lonely and actually didn't get a lot of attention on my birthday.

If it is that short of thing you Want to stay, Null, I agree with you ... I will ever push my passion so long as I am alive or on this site to help that community goal.

I motion that this thread be locked and ever individual reply in his or her ownself manner on this ...

:threadclosed:

This is not a place to spit on or raise up this problem... but as it is already shouted... Let us reflect and in our selves resolve the problem within ourselves.

Let our actions show to Null not our words... and to those that don't care about this internet site... I can see you at the door.

-Love
Gopher
XF Member for life now...and ever more.

[HomerSPC]

NOO NULL AND HOLLY! D:

[DeathsFriend22]

whoa, wait, what? When did this happen? I haven't seen a whole lot of personal grudges against anybody except for maybe between Blue and Paladin (or Dow). XF seems pretty much the same to me. This is also the first time I've heard of this "Null and Holly leaving" business.

Can somebody please explain what the fuck is going on?

[Blue]

whoa, wait, what? When did this happen? I haven't seen a whole lot of personal grudges against anybody except for maybe between Blue and Paladin (or Dow). XF seems pretty much the same to me. This is also the first time I've heard of this "Null and Holly leaving" business.

Can somebody please explain what the fuck is going on?

Devotion to the XForgery community is slowly dwindling down among members and Coyote made this to get everyone back to loving each other, again.
Well, that's my theory.

[Master Debayter]

Devotion to the XForgery community is slowly dwindling down among members and Coyote made this to get everyone back to loving each other, again.
Well, that's my theory.I believe a sense of awareness needed to be reinstated.

[DeathsFriend22]

Awareness? I was under the impression that activity was still climbing.

[Blue]

This should sum it up:

YouTube- everybody love everybody!

[G043R]

YouTube- Righteous Brothers You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin' (45 RPM)

I like this one as well. Coyote... maybe you should edit the OP with which ever one you like the most.

[xFear The Herox]

i do believe that the thread should be closed and the replies should be deleted, how ever i got a few things to say.

weather we have realized it or not Null and Holly have influenced all of us in ways that you wouldn't think of at first.
~they have been the source of many great laughters.
~they have been there when we needed them.
~they have helped us all come to a place to talk and have a good time with other fellow forgers where your voice matters.
~they were always willing to help anyone out if they were asked
~and many many more things that they have done for us.

what we need to get at is where we were just a few short months ago

we need to get back to helping each other, where if one asked for help 50 + people will hear their call and not 1 or 2 that we might have today.

we need to support each other, stop the child's play, we are all old enough to make a forum work. and if you feel like you can't do that, you feel like you can be rude and be disrespectful to anyone, then we at this site do not want you.

i know i will follow null and holly to where ever they go if they do leave and i know the people who love them and are true to this site will follow also. i just hope they don't need to leave.

Thank you for calling this out.

Null And Holly We Love You. We Need You. Don't Leave.

[Jpec07]

I'm sorry, but I actually don't see what you're saying. People will come and go, dude, and while I'm not saying I want Chris and Holly to leave, if they decide to, then that's honestly their decision. They have a kid now, and that takes priority over anything they may have going on online. Not to say that the friends and the community here aren't valuable or important: on the contrary, they can be of utmost importance. Having a close-knit group of friends with whom you can laugh, cry, and get creative with is amazingly important. But as life goes on, you start to develop deep, meaningful friendships with people in real life. The internet becomes a luxury, and you're forced to realize that you can relate to everyone, because everyone's going through the same exact stuff that you are. No one is secure in who they are, especially not while they're still in high school. No one knows where they're going in life, even if they claim they do and have a plan, they have no way of knowing for sure. Everyone is afraid of losing the people and things they care about, but over time, everyone has to deal with it. And when you begin to realize how much you can relate to other people, and how similar you are to them, you begin to understand.

It's sad to see Null take an even farther step back from his leadership on this forum than he did when he first put on the purple hat a few months ago, but he wouldn't have left if he didn't trust we were ready to handle the forum without him. They wouldn't leave if they thought we still needed them. One part of being a great leader is being able to let go of the things you've created, and let them fly on their own. Both Chris and Holly poured their hearts and souls into this site like you said, and I know that without them, XForgery would be a gaping maw in the lives of all her members; a maw that they didn't even know they had. As it is now, we are a community.

We are friends. We are family. We are strong. We are united.

We are XForgery.

I fail to see the division that you're getting at, Coyote. While yeah, there are people here and there who wile things up, we're still, from what I see, a really tight-knit group. We have become exactly what Null envisioned when he was working as an administrator: a community of forgers working together towards mutual improvement and friendly, universal acceptance. There is no blame that needs to be passed around for Chris' potential departure. He accomplished his vision, watched the site take root and grow, and watched the members learn to work with one another towards that mutual improvement. No, Null isn't leaving because of anything we did wrong. If Null departs (which I hope he sticks around - I have yet to beat the man at a game of OVERBOARD!), he does so because his work is done, and he has a new life to pour his all into. The reigns are in our hands now, so it falls to us to pick up where he left off, and continue to grow it into something bigger, better, closer, and stronger. Let's not disappoint.

And please note, I don't imagine for an instant that there will be perfect cohesion. We are human, after all. But the difference between a friend and a phony is that a friend will still count you as a friend even after you've been screaming at each other for the past half hour. We're not all going to agree on everything. We're not all going to share the same opinions on everything. But that doesn't stop us from being respectful, from laughing with one another, from crying with one another, from deeply cherishing the relationships we build here.

So XForgery, I challenge you to lift up your heads. It is okay to be sad, but in all honesty I am excited. That Chris and Holly may be departing tells me that they judge us ready to do this on our own, and as I look at the high caliber of character that exists in the members here and the absurd potential they possess, I feel I must agree. Who knows what we can accomplish if we band together? Who knows what an impact we might have on the lives of people who happen upon our site? Who knows what we can do if we work together to accomplish it? The time is now, brothers and sisters. Let us look forward and see a brighter future, and let us not plod slowly toward it, but let us run hand in hand and seize it, because it is ours.

We are friends. We are family. We are strong. We are united.

We are XForgery.

[Tim]

God damn Jpec, took the words right out of my mouth.

Personally I don't want Chris and Holly leaving thinking XForgery has gone down the shitter, I want them to leave on their own terms: with no regrets and a sense of accomplishment. I know they won't be here forever (they are raising a family after all), but when they do go it should be on a positive note. This is the goal I'm shooting for when it's time for me to step down as Event Director, and hopefully I will obtain it.

I joined this site to help a greater cause, and my goals are still the same now as they were when I was just a regular member here. Coyote obviously has the same motives and I hope most of you do too, but I will agree with him on this: the "High School Musical" bullshit needs to stop....RIGHT NOW!

[fireskull66325]

I'm sorry, but I actually don't see what you're saying. People will come and go, dude, and while I'm not saying I want Chris and Holly to leave, if they decide to, then that's honestly their decision. They have a kid now, and that takes priority over anything they may have going on online. Not to say that the friends and the community here aren't valuable or important: on the contrary, they can be of utmost importance. Having a close-knit group of friends with whom you can laugh, cry, and get creative with is amazingly important. But as life goes on, you start to develop deep, meaningful friendships with people in real life. The internet becomes a luxury, and you're forced to realize that you can relate to everyone, because everyone's going through the same exact stuff that you are. No one is secure in who they are, especially not while they're still in high school. No one knows where they're going in life, even if they claim they do and have a plan, they have no way of knowing for sure. Everyone is afraid of losing the people and things they care about, but over time, everyone has to deal with it. And when you begin to realize how much you can relate to other people, and how similar you are to them, you begin to understand.

It's sad to see Null take an even farther step back from his leadership on this forum than he did when he first put on the purple hat a few months ago, but he wouldn't have left if he didn't trust we were ready to handle the forum without him. They wouldn't leave if they thought we still needed them. One part of being a great leader is being able to let go of the things you've created, and let them fly on their own. Both Chris and Holly poured their hearts and souls into this site like you said, and I know that without them, XForgery would be a gaping maw in the lives of all her members; a maw that they didn't even know they had. As it is now, we are a community.

We are friends. We are family. We are strong. We are united.

We are XForgery.

I fail to see the division that you're getting at, Coyote. While yeah, there are people here and there who wile things up, we're still, from what I see, a really tight-knit group. We have become exactly what Null envisioned when he was working as an administrator: a community of forgers working together towards mutual improvement and friendly, universal acceptance. There is no blame that needs to be passed around for Chris' potential departure. He accomplished his vision, watched the site take root and grow, and watched the members learn to work with one another towards that mutual improvement. No, Null isn't leaving because of anything we did wrong. If Null departs (which I hope he sticks around - I have yet to beat the man at a game of OVERBOARD!), he does so because his work is done, and he has a new life to pour his all into. The reigns are in our hands now, so it falls to us to pick up where he left off, and continue to grow it into something bigger, better, closer, and stronger. Let's not disappoint.

And please note, I don't imagine for an instant that there will be perfect cohesion. We are human, after all. But the difference between a friend and a phony is that a friend will still count you as a friend even after you've been screaming at each other for the past half hour. We're not all going to agree on everything. We're not all going to share the same opinions on everything. But that doesn't stop us from being respectful, from laughing with one another, from crying with one another, from deeply cherishing the relationships we build here.

So XForgery, I challenge you to lift up your heads. It is okay to be sad, but in all honesty I am excited. That Chris and Holly may be departing tells me that they judge us ready to do this on our own, and as I look at the high caliber of character that exists in the members here and the absurd potential they possess, I feel I must agree. Who knows what we can accomplish if we band together? Who knows what an impact we might have on the lives of people who happen upon our site? Who knows what we can do if we work together to accomplish it? The time is now, brothers and sisters. Let us look forward and see a brighter future, and let us not plod slowly toward it, but let us run hand in hand and seize it, because it is ours.

We are friends. We are family. We are strong. We are united.

We are XForgery.

That is one of the best pieces of text I have ever seen on the internet.

[Null Parameter]

That is one of the best pieces of text I have ever seen on the internet.
Why do you think he's a Pencil Pusher? ;)

[PsychoBucket]

the "High School Musical" bullshit needs to stop....RIGHT NOW!

I have never watched "High School Musical" so I'm not sure what you mean.

[Kyyrbes]

I know I have not frequented the site nearly as much as I used to, and thus may not understand the depth of some of the feelings you are talking about. But from my observation, every time I have come back, the site has changed drastically. The only thing that seems to stay the same, is the ability for this community to make people feel like they have found somewhere where they can fit in.

Chris and Holly have definitely taken a step back from the interactions they once had on this site, but I have seen that their attitudes and acceptance of new people has never changed. Instead it has just become clouded by the day to day problems and greed that some members choose to clog this site with.

Instead of making new friends and sharing great ideas, it seems as if people have become content with their group of friends, and separated themselves from everyone else. And instead of the great sharing community that was so obvious before, it seems as if people just want to take what they can get and contribute nothing. This site was created to share ideas, maps, and most of all experiences as friends. Though this has not been completely lost, it continues to become less and less obvious behind the veil of complaints and greed for power.

If Chris and Holly would like to depart from this site altogether, it is their choice, and I can understand their reasons to some extent. I feel an ache in my heart when I think of memories I have created and shared with the wonderful people on this site. I am not sure that I will ever find another place where I am freely accepted as I have been here. But it seems that for those who are just joining the site, they may never experience that at all, and that truly saddens me.

We must ask ourselves, is it really worth having the power to delete posts? Is it really worth arguing about how 'this map is rated too low'? Is it really worth sacrificing the friends and family that we have found on this site? Though some of you don't really understand, this site and its community are a very large part of our lives. Because Chris and Holly are (and have been) a huge part of this site, it is as coyote said,"This is like the death of a family member or the end of a relationship."

Chris and Holly, if you do choose to leave, I know that we will be able to continue our friendship outside of this site just as always. The memories are not lost, and the link is not broken, it has just taken a different form.

To the rest of you, I would encourage you to think about how you use this site, and think about how you can expand your horizons and bring this place back to its golden days. As a community, I believe it can be done, but we must put aside our differences and embrace the foundations that this site was created on.

Sincerely,

Connor

[Time Glitch]

...*peeks head out from under a rock*

Huh?

WHAT?

!!!

Jesus what's going on!?

...

?

EDIT:

In all seriousness...Can someone explain to me what's going on? I'm always out of the loop...I'm gathering that people have apparently been hating on others here...And honestly I didn't think that was possible here...So when I saw this I was to say the least...Surprised.

I have simple things to say:

To those who have instigated said conflicts/grudges:

Stop.

To those insulted by said conflicts/grudges:

It's the internet. Please get over it.

To everyone:

I love this community, even though it seems I don't drop by all that often anymore. I wish I had more time to dedicate to it and now I rather regret not being here. Maybe I could have done something to help...But honestly I don't think everyone should start doom-saying just because specific people have had their internet wars take place on these forums. Its easy to get caught up in petty arguments, but you can't judge a community based on it's worst people. You have to judge it on its best. And I know that the best people on these forums are some of the best people I've ever met on the internet, and I know a lot of you feel the same way.

Let the flamers have their wars.

Because we have friends, and a great community to share with them.

[xFear The Herox]

...*peeks head out from under a rock*

Huh?

WHAT?

!!!

Jesus what's going on!?

...

?

lol i lawled at that one

[DeathsFriend22]

Much like Time Glitch, I still have no idea what's going on here. Somebody please point out in what way things are wrong and give some examples, for Christ's sake.

[Mace]

For frak's sake, it's a gorram website. 2 inactive members can damn well leave if they want to. See you on skype holly?

[Prod]

I love this community, even though it seems I don't drop by all that often anymore. I wish I had more time to dedicate to it and now I rather regret not being here. Maybe I could have done something to help...But honestly I don't think everyone should start doom-saying just because specific people have had their internet wars take place on these forums. Its easy to get caught up in petty arguments, but you can't judge a community based on it's worst people. You have to judge it on its best. And I know that the best people on these forums are some of the best people I've ever met on the internet, and I know a lot of you feel the same way.

Let the flamers have their wars.

Because we have friends, and a great community to share with them.

I completely agree. especially the last 2 lines.

[Shell]

I’m sure some of you may not know who I am. Well, I’m here to help the community. I’m sure some of you are already thinking that I’m lying. I’ve not really made it my job to help the community here. I’ve even gone against the community several times in the past; however, that’s the past, and this is the present.

I’m going to start with a little bit about how I joined this site and what the community was like back then. I had joined up back in the winter of 07, when ske7ch first started Forgery. I followed it like a dog. I joined Forgery.5 and then the later Halo 3 Forgery. Back then, the community was around just 20 people. That’s it. We were all friends. However, that’s not to say there were the occasional fights. I do believe Ganye and I got in many fights, but that’s not the point. I’m going to fast forward a little bit. A couple months later, a friend of ours joined the site: AZN FTW.

This is where things get complicated. When AZN first joined, I gave him hell. He brought many of you that are reading this today to the site. He came up with great ideas for the site. I disappeared at this time, leaving many weekly threads not posted. I guess I left because I was jealous of him. Maybe even because he ruined the community I had come to know and love so well. However, because I was selfish, I became a hinder for the community, rather than a help. Eventually, I decided I would become part of this new community, rather than mourn for the old one. A few days after I had decided this, AZN FTW was banned, never to be heard of again.

I now got a mixture of feelings. I wanted to help the community, but I didn’t know how. Thomas came back to the site after a long hiatus, and Null became retired. Being the follower that I was, I became retired as well. After a long bit of waiting, I decided that myself retiring wasn’t going to help the site in the least. I became an Event Director again. At this point, I got wrapped up in some more stuff that hindered the community. One of which I consider to be this (http://xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6657) thread. It’s obvious that I’ve hindered the community in the past. That’s why I’m writing this. I wish to help the community.



As I sit here today typing this, I’m sure that at least one person talked about another XForgery member behind their back. I’m almost absolutely sure. Now that is why I’m here today. Our community as a whole has been drastically decreasing. Many members have just given up on the community as a whole. They have just become part of a single group of friends, giving up on all other members. I was a part of this. I no longer wish to be like that. I’m going to step up to the challenge and be a leader, rather than a follower. I want everyone here to make new friends, give compliments rather than insults, and love each other!

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
-Shellshock

[Null Parameter]

Okay, I feel the need to comment here, because I think many people are getting the wrong idea, and I completely understand why, because Coyote made it almost sound like somebody had been murdered and everybody was backstabbing each other.


I actually wasn't a direct part of the conversation that spurred on this thread, and truthfully the flaming side of people isn't really what would ever make me leave this great site. There are spats here and there, but a majority of members are reserved in that manner. It's true, there's definitely room for improvement; but that's nothing that all of us shouldn't be able to overlook for the greater good that comes out of this community.


My issue is with the lack of selfless dedication for the greater good over the strive for personal glory. Everywhere you look it is people advertising their maps, their new forums or whatever else it may be. Nobody is really working for the community anymore.

The Suggestions Forum (http://xforgery.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5), that used to be filled with non-stop ideas to bring XF to the next level, is instead filled with little annoyances and minor issues. Most everybody, the staff included, is content with working with what we have, rather than striving for perfection.

It's true, I'm an optimist at most times, and that leads me to strive for oft unattainable goals, but personally, the phrase "nothing/nobody is perfect" should not be uttered here at XF. As soon as that sentence comes around, things become "good enough", when the truth is that nothing should be good enough for this community. But the Community, i.e. you, are the ones that need to strive for that, especially when XF is so community driven.


The most blatant example I can give right now is the Features. The Features Process is completely community driven. It expects that you, the Community, nominate and vote on your favorite maps. We've never really had an issue with the voting, and we tend to get 50+ votes every week. But come on, where are the nominations? We have 120+ members that visit the site daily, we have nearly 1,000 maps posted and there are weeks where we have gotten only five or six nominations, and one instance where we got three. 3! That's not acceptable by any standards, and it's just a good instance of the community, in a sense, killing itself.


Staff, you know exactly where I stand on this issue, due to discussions behind the scenes. Personally, I think it's crap that I would have to fight the staff in order to inject life into a dying part of the site, especially after having done similar things, effectively, for the better part of two years. Yes, it's great that you are "thinking for yourselves" and you can finally function without my guidance, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I support the decisions you make, just that I'm glad somebody finally grew some balls. You all need to learn to look towards the future, consider the consequences of your actions (or lack thereof) and think about what is best for the community rather than yourselves. Just because you and a handful of other people think an idea is great, doesn't mean it is; trust me, that is one of the hardest lessons to learn. True leadership comes from humility, the humility that allows you to look at your own ideas and realize that they may indeed be shit and not work for the community.

I hope that you all can look beyond yourselves, past the fact that you'll have to sacrifice yourself, go beyond the bare minimum job description, and actually strive to make this community what it can and most definitely should be. And that doesn't necessarily just go for the staff either.



And since I'm here, I feel a need to bring this up as well. I find it very disheartening that after how much work we, and I personally, have put into XForgery, and after how often I hear that XForgery is a great community with amazing features and great members, and how much everybody loves it, that when it comes down to it, a lot of people don't truly back it 100%.

I hate bringing up the whole XF vs other forging sites, because I have nothing against other forging sites, at all, but I see no point in holding active accounts on multiple sites, unless it is for personal gain. And yes, you can make the excuse that you "want to spread the joy of your marvelous maps to the entire world," but, I'm sorry, in the end it's all about the attention. If it wasn't about the download count or the recognition, you would be just fine with being in one place, even if that place wasn't here.

The fact that we have almost just as many nearly brand new members signing up for the XF vs FH (http://xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7018) event as we do seasoned veterans is just sad, especially when we have several big name members signing up for the other side (http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-discussion/95208-want-snf.html), mainly for frivolous reasons like "I've been there longer". Of course you've been there longer, they've been around a hell of a lot longer.

Or how many of you hold staff positions at other sites, when you could be devoting your time here to bettering this community? The community that you claim to think is the best, at least when you're here.

[Executie]

Okay, I feel the need to comment here, because I think many people are getting the wrong idea, and I completely understand why, because Coyote made it almost sound like somebody had been murdered and everybody was backstabbing each other.


I actually wasn't a direct part of the conversation that spurred on this thread, and truthfully the flaming side of people isn't really what would ever make me leave this great site. There are spats here and there, but a majority of members are reserved in that manner. It's true, there's definitely room for improvement; but that's nothing that all of us shouldn't be able to overlook for the greater good that comes out of this community.


My issue is with the lack of selfless dedication for the greater good over the strive for personal glory. Everywhere you look it is people advertising their maps, their new forums or whatever else it may be. Nobody is really working for the community anymore.

The Suggestions Forum (http://xforgery.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5), that used to be filled with non-stop ideas to bring XF to the next level, is instead filled with little annoyances and minor issues. Most everybody, the staff included, is content with working with what we have, rather than striving for perfection.

It's true, I'm an optimist at most times, and that leads me to strive for oft unattainable goals, but personally, the phrase "nothing/nobody is perfect" should not be uttered here at XF. As soon as that sentence comes around, things become "good enough", when the truth is that nothing should be good enough for this community. But the Community, i.e. you, are the ones that need to strive for that, especially when XF is so community driven.


The most blatant example I can give right now is the Features. The Features Process is completely community driven. It expects that you, the Community, nominate and vote on your favorite maps. We've never really had an issue with the voting, and we tend to get 50+ votes every week. But come on, where are the nominations? We have 120+ members that visit the site daily, we have nearly 1,000 maps posted and there are weeks where we have gotten only five or six nominations, and one instance where we got three. 3! That's not acceptable by any standards, and it's just a good instance of the community, in a sense, killing itself.


Staff, you know exactly where I stand on this issue, due to discussions behind the scenes. Personally, I think it's crap that I would have to fight the staff in order to inject life into a dying part of the site, especially after having done similar things, effectively, for the better part of two years. Yes, it's great that you are "thinking for yourselves" and you can finally function without my guidance, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I support the decisions you make, just that I'm glad somebody finally grew some balls. You all need to learn to look towards the future, consider the consequences of your actions (or lack thereof) and think about what is best for the community rather than yourselves. Just because you and a handful of other people think an idea is great, doesn't mean it is; trust me, that is one of the hardest lessons to learn. True leadership comes from humility, the humility that allows you to look at your own ideas and realize that they may indeed be shit and not work for the community.

I hope that you all can look beyond yourselves, past the fact that you'll have to sacrifice yourself, go beyond the bare minimum job description, and actually strive to make this community what it can and most definitely should be. And that doesn't necessarily just go for the staff either.



And since I'm here, I feel a need to bring this up as well. I find it very disheartening that after how much work we, and I personally, have put into XForgery, and after how often I hear that XForgery is a great community with amazing features and great members, and how much everybody loves it, that when it comes down to it, a lot of people don't truly back it 100%.

I hate bringing up the whole XF vs other forging sites, because I have nothing against other forging sites, at all, but I see no point in holding active accounts on multiple sites, unless it is for personal gain. And yes, you can make the excuse that you "want to spread the joy of your marvelous maps to the entire world," but, I'm sorry, in the end it's all about the attention. If it wasn't about the download count or the recognition, you would be just fine with being in one place, even if that place wasn't here.

The fact that we have almost just as many nearly brand new members signing up for the XF vs FH (http://xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7018) event as we do seasoned veterans is just sad, especially when we have several big name members signing up for the other side (http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-discussion/95208-want-snf.html), mainly for frivolous reasons like "I've been there longer". Of course you've been there longer, they've been around a hell of a lot longer.

Or how many of you hold staff positions at other sites, when you could be devoting your time here to bettering this community? The community that you claim to think is the best, at least when you're here.

Well said.

[Kyyrbes]

Well said indeed.

[Mace]

several big name members signing up for the other side (http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-discussion/95208-want-snf.html), mainly for frivolous reasons like "I've been there longer". Of course you've been there longer, they've been around a hell of a lot longer.




Sure null, use me as an example. I feel myself evenly active at each site, so I just used time spent in total as a deciding factor. And just because I spend time here doesn't mean I can't have other loyalties, and loyalties that take precedence. That shouldn't be a reason for you to leave, but it doesn't matter, (see my earlier reply)

[Null Parameter]

That shouldn't be a reason for you to leave, but it doesn't matterTrust me Mace, I wouldn't use you specifically as a reason to leave. It was an example, and you weren't the only person I used as one. Oh well.

[Kenny M]

It's their choice, I mean Jesus they have jobs, a kid, probably some kind of pet, and their married/ older then 20. They need to get off of internet forums sooner or later.

[G043R]

I feel I need to speak... my words often fail me but I must speak.

I made Things of men. I remember many things of the past and I came back to forge with one intention. Community.... I had a Pm message with you, Null, month back of which you had a similar interest to what I am thinking then as well now.

I seek both in wonder as well a longing heart is the same issue of burden emotion the same? If so then, Null, you have a friend or more over a brother.

The issue is all so recent about people being on lines of forging sites and divides. I even wrote about it in the GoO. Another Halo site I reside in. The irony is that I was cast out for making a new divide... One of which allowed all other transgressions but allowed only one single goal. Community.... I been meandering since that idea has sprung and by the storm of the last few months I come to the shores of XF. It was a harbor I use to dock for traded goods. The irony is that the good was in the people not the land. The emotion that I found is a mix between loyalty and devotion.

Many people view it as if I traded hats.... from GoO or FH to now XF. It is much more of hats but something deeper that I am still learning to define. I know this sounds undefined but that is the power of it.

Null, if you leave I will carry the desire you left to be done.... If you stay I'll carry this cross with you. This passion is a burden but the burden is not your own and I with you shall see it done.

I so much agree something beautiful is dieing and I hope to rejoin that desire when Both Reach arrives as well the future events to unfold. I don't see so much the aspect of drama that is frustrating Null but that to many of other members view this site is a whore. You would rather not care for something you put forth many hours and emotion into to let it simply fall into darkness. I would rather let myself turn to darkness then allowed others to do so.

See you guys in customs...
-Gopher

[Coyote1023]

It's their choice, I mean Jesus they have jobs, a kid, probably some kind of pet, and their married/ older then 20. They need to get off of internet forums sooner or later.

Way too completely miss the point. And you are one of the main people I was talking about too...

I probably shouldn't list names, but I think I will, otherwise there will be no way for them to get it through their heads. By the way, if your name isn't on this list, you may still be doing some stupid stuff, I just forgot about you. Don't worry, I'm not limiting the hate ;) . Now, to the list: Kenny, all you do is troll, I don't know if I have seen a positive post out of you yet. Mace. Quit pretending that you are so great, grow up, get some friends, and do something for this community other than posting graphics. Zack, site asshole isn't a good title, I suggest you change before I actually start to get annoyed. Blue, good job, you have made it off the list. I guess that is good for now.

[CostlyAxis]

Can I get a description of myself?

I've secretly written my opinions on this matter somewhere else in the way I see it. They aren't very nice comments though. Search for them if you want.

[Time Glitch]

I agree with Null on a lot of his points, but I feel like I gotta point out something. I don't really forge a lot anymore. Nor do I play a lot of custom games anymore. However, I still love the community here. I like to pop in here and there and make a joke, do some elaborate over-done ridiculous post and have a good time.

However, I don't really do much on the maps or feature side of things. Mainly, because I have very little knowledge about the games posted on here. I mean, I haven't even played a game of Asset yet! I feel like it would be un-fair to voice my opinion on something I've never even played, and I'd probably just vote or nominate for people I knew.

So, its not like I don't take part because I don't care or whatever. I don't participate out of fairness...Some people might be in the same boat?

Just saying.

[Null Parameter]

Costly, you have such a pessimistic view on things sometimes.

Yes, it was said that we couldn't do some of your suggestions, and guess what, that's because we couldn't. GASP! It was only through my learning outside of XF, after retiring, that I learned some advanced techniques that could alleviate those issues.

You say that your ideas were shot down instantly, but you fail to mention the fact that before that almost every one of your ideas was taken into account and integrated into the site. You have 10 threads in the Suggestions Forum (not including the one for the Poll of the Day), and 8 of them have been resolved at one point or another and two still remain open. The only reason those two remain open? Technical demand/expertise. Both are huge projects that we don't have the man power to accomplish. Easy as that.

I'm sorry that you have unrealistic expectations for us. And you talk about members never being able to meet other people's demands? HA! Hypocrisy at it's finest.

[l PATRICK l]

I'm just wondering why we are to blame here? how is this our problem? they could have easily avoided all the stuff that happens here at Xforgery

[Soren515]

I agree with Null on a lot of his points, but I feel like I gotta point out something. I don't really forge a lot anymore. Nor do I play a lot of custom games anymore. However, I still love the community here. I like to pop in here and there and make a joke, do some elaborate over-done ridiculous post and have a good time.

However, I don't really do much on the maps or feature side of things. Mainly, because I have very little knowledge about the games posted on here. I mean, I haven't even played a game of Asset yet! I feel like it would be un-fair to voice my opinion on something I've never even played, and I'd probably just vote or nominate for people I knew.

So, its not like I don't take part because I don't care or whatever. I don't participate out of fairness...Some people might be in the same boat?

Just saying.

I'm quite the same. I am a terrible forger unlike Time Glitch so its hard to contribute something if you can't make anything decent. I also haven't played customs in a while because Halo is kinda dead. I check my friends list and I maybe see one person on halo if i'm lucky. I check A Forgery A and I see maybe three. As for features, I haven't even played the final version of agents. The last time I played it was with AZN in the testing phases. Its not worth giving my opinion on a map because I haven't played it. If everyone did that it would just become a popularity contest.

[Null Parameter]

As I said, the features was just the most obvious example. Trust me, I understand where you're coming from, since I barely play Halo anymore either. And Time Glitch, you aren't alone, I've also never played Asset.

That doesn't mean that there aren't other, non-halo related things that you could do. Things like the Poll of the Day (http://xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7139), write a story (http://xforgery.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&f=21&prefixid=general_story), host a non-Halo WoW (http://xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7047), make Suggestions (http://xforgery.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5) to add in non-Halo related activities, etc.

I still love the community here.
I'm so glad to hear that, but I'd rather see it.

The one thing that's great about our community is how many people we have that stick around even after they stop playing Halo. We aren't just a Halo Community, we're a Community of Friends. So why not work to give them something even more to stick around for?

[Canadians360]

I'm just wondering why we are to blame here? how is this our problem? they could have easily avoided all the stuff that happens here at Xforgery

Im not sure what exactly it is your getting at here, but it does bring up a point. Many in this thread are here and posting because null and holly may leave. I certainly hope that never hapens and wish they would not go, but what concerns me is why they are actually going. XF members are not showing a sense of unity and pride in XF, they care about building attention for what they have and not really just participating in the site for the sake of participation/fun or for the betterment of the site. What worries me more is the fact that Null and Holly are some of the few who are actually worried about this. The community is loosing its glue and its the last thing we want to focus on.

The major thing I noticed as null mentioned is the decline in the suggestions forum, its dwindled greatly in the past few months. Before my forum of choice for posting. Now one thing I will say is that without null, it does seem like larger ideas have less chances of being implimented without his coding, but it never hurts to suggest ideas and talk, you never know what ways could be found of implementing suggestions.

Over all I think the main thing is that once very commited members are moving on, I could list some but wont bother. Now in the past heavily participating members have left and nothing really hapened because other members were becoming more active. However I think the pattern is sort of diminishing, less extreamly active members are comming in to the number of older members who are moving on. Take the time to welcome individuals to the site, learn about them a little welcome them, play a game with them etc. When I joined this site I recieved a welcome thread 4x that of any other site, and thats what I really love about XF is how much the members care about one another.

In all honesty it may just be the volume at which we are growing now, with more members every day its harder to find a strong friendship and we cling to our current ones which excludes the newer members. But its also hard to gather a party now, more and more people are leaving halo to play other games. I think we just need to start reaching out to one another and thinking more about XF than our own motives and make sure to play some games with the community at least now and then.

[chrstphrbrnnn]

Honestly, from the perspective of a long time writer for a site I have to say this thread is fairly disgraceful, especially for one that is on a front page. Sure it's sad to see a site founder move on, or maybe you are having some behavioral issues that you want to address but this is an unprofessional way to approach it. More specifically the issue with this thread is the fact that you left it open to the public. It should have been easy to preempt the type of discussion that this would stir up, which is something in my opinion that shouldn't be on a front page.

Worse yet is that the person who created this thread, someone who is in a position of power, decided to create a petty list of people who he claims are "the issue with the site". It seems like the purpose of this thread was to drive your community back towards unity and stop the drama and arguments yet you segregate members and call them down on the front page of your site? If they are the issue, talk to them privately and personally. If need be infract them or ban them but attempting to embarrass them on the front page is not the correct approach.

You may not care for my opinions but if you want to solve your issues a thread like this certainly is not the answer. I would suggest it be deleted.

[Null Parameter]

Honestly, from the perspective of a long time writer for a site I have to say this thread is fairly disgraceful, especially for one that is on a front page. Sure it's sad to see a site founder move on, or maybe you are having some behavioral issues that you want to address but this is an unprofessional way to approach it. More specifically the issue with this thread is the fact that you left it open to the public. It should have been easy to preempt the type of discussion that this would stir up, which is something in my opinion that shouldn't be on a front page.

Worse yet is that the person who created this thread, someone who is in a position of power, decided to create a petty list of people who he claims are "the issue with the site". It seems like the purpose of this thread was to drive your community back towards unity and stop the drama and arguments yet you segregate members and call them down on the front page of your site? If they are the issue, talk to them privately and personally. If need be infract them or ban them but attempting to embarrass them on the front page is not the correct approach.

You may not care for my opinions but if you want to solve your issues a thread like this certainly is not the answer. I would suggest it be deleted.
I couldn't agree more. Like I said in my initial post, I wasn't apart of the creation of this thread, and I definitely didn't condone the tones and such used within. I was baffled when he made that list, and if I still had moderation powers, it wouldn't still be there. I see where the initial good intention was, but the follow through was far less than desirable.

I'm not sure if you regularly check the site or just happened to hear about the thread through the grapevine, but thank you for taking the time to register and comment. It's good to know that, despite any past "rivalries", you can come and help us out, even if it is just to tell us that we f'd up.

[Mace]

Im not sure what exactly it is your getting at here, but it does bring up a point. Many in this thread are here and posting because null and holly may leave. I certainly hope that never hapens and wish they would not go, but what concerns me is why they are actually going. XF members are not showing a sense of unity and pride in XF, they care about building attention for what they have and not really just participating in the site for the sake of participation/fun or for the betterment of the site. What worries me more is the fact that Null and Holly are some of the few who are actually worried about this. The community is loosing its glue and its the last thing we want to focus on.

The major thing I noticed as null mentioned is the decline in the suggestions forum, its dwindled greatly in the past few months. Before my forum of choice for posting. Now one thing I will say is that without null, it does seem like larger ideas have less chances of being implimented without his coding, but it never hurts to suggest ideas and talk, you never know what ways could be found of implementing suggestions.

Over all I think the main thing is that once very commited members are moving on, I could list some but wont bother. Now in the past heavily participating members have left and nothing really hapened because other members were becoming more active. However I think the pattern is sort of diminishing, less extreamly active members are comming in to the number of older members who are moving on. Take the time to welcome individuals to the site, learn about them a little welcome them, play a game with them etc. When I joined this site I recieved a welcome thread 4x that of any other site, and thats what I really love about XF is how much the members care about one another.

In all honesty it may just be the volume at which we are growing now, with more members every day its harder to find a strong friendship and we cling to our current ones which excludes the newer members. But its also hard to gather a party now, more and more people are leaving halo to play other games. I think we just need to start reaching out to one another and thinking more about XF than our own motives and make sure to play some games with the community at least now and then.

Honestly, from the perspective of a long time writer for a site I have to say this thread is fairly disgraceful, especially for one that is on a front page. Sure it's sad to see a site founder move on, or maybe you are having some behavioral issues that you want to address but this is an unprofessional way to approach it. More specifically the issue with this thread is the fact that you left it open to the public. It should have been easy to preempt the type of discussion that this would stir up, which is something in my opinion that shouldn't be on a front page.

Worse yet is that the person who created this thread, someone who is in a position of power, decided to create a petty list of people who he claims are "the issue with the site". It seems like the purpose of this thread was to drive your community back towards unity and stop the drama and arguments yet you segregate members and call them down on the front page of your site? If they are the issue, talk to them privately and personally. If need be infract them or ban them but attempting to embarrass them on the front page is not the correct approach.

You may not care for my opinions but if you want to solve your issues a thread like this certainly is not the answer. I would suggest it be deleted.



This and this. Damn well said both of you.

[chrstphrbrnnn]

I check every once in a while and I don't have any particular gripes with xF, just some attitudes of certain members and the issues those attitudes sometimes create.

[AceOfSpades]

I hate bringing up the whole XF vs other forging sites, because I have nothing against other forging sites, at all, but I see no point in holding active accounts on multiple sites, unless it is for personal gain. And yes, you can make the excuse that you "want to spread the joy of your marvelous maps to the entire world," but, I'm sorry, in the end it's all about the attention. If it wasn't about the download count or the recognition, you would be just fine with being in one place, even if that place wasn't here.

I agree with all of your post but this. I hold active accounts on multiple sites so I can get people with different expertises to help me with my maps. For example, I wouldn't go here for in-depth feedback on an MLG map that I create; I would go to MLGpro to the Forge Forum to talk to people who spend the majority of their Halo time playing MLG or making and testing MLG maps. If I were to create an mini-game, I would go here, because XF, in my mind, is a very casual, if not, the most casual, forging site out there.

And it's not just about maps either. I have made friends on multiple different forging sites. If I want to talk to someone who primarily visits MonitorBuilt, I would go to MonitorBuilt first to try and contact them.

To me at least, holding multiple active accounts has nothing to do with popularity or prestige, it's all about getting to know and talk to different people.

Honestly, from the perspective of a long time writer for a site I have to say this thread is fairly disgraceful, especially for one that is on a front page. Sure it's sad to see a site founder move on, or maybe you are having some behavioral issues that you want to address but this is an unprofessional way to approach it. More specifically the issue with this thread is the fact that you left it open to the public. It should have been easy to preempt the type of discussion that this would stir up, which is something in my opinion that shouldn't be on a front page.

Worse yet is that the person who created this thread, someone who is in a position of power, decided to create a petty list of people who he claims are "the issue with the site". It seems like the purpose of this thread was to drive your community back towards unity and stop the drama and arguments yet you segregate members and call them down on the front page of your site? If they are the issue, talk to them privately and personally. If need be infract them or ban them but attempting to embarrass them on the front page is not the correct approach.

You may not care for my opinions but if you want to solve your issues a thread like this certainly is not the answer. I would suggest it be deleted.

I would agree with you to some point. I do think that this issue needed to be brought out into the public, because there are certainly many members who were unaware of any problems... me included to a certain extent. I do not, however, think this thread was the right way to go about it.

I don't think the entire community really needed to know of Null and Holly's thinking about leaving. I believe that is their choice and if they do choose to, so be it. We really can't do anything once they do leave, and I don't think there is much we can do while they're here. Yes, losing them would be like losing a family member... but do families just up and quit if one of them passes away? No. They keep going through tough times.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

[G043R]

chrstphrbrnnn I feel your point is valid on the way Forgehub is ran... or how it is currently ran that works for that community, but as you know... XF and FH operate on a few different ideas.

Yes I called for this thread to be locked and to allow only personal reflection of the issue but after sitting here and listing to the conversation of this community actually bring there issues to bare and resolve the issue in a good faith that we are still friends... is not so much an issue of place.

See you consider that each person should go to them privately and work out the issue privately... I agree it can be done that way but when Null or a few other members feel that we as a body collectively are not caring for one another it is not an individual that is to blame but the group. Yeah people point fingers and wag... I would even go to say people mention leaders... but as long as we can all see the issue and improve with a better resolve the community is the better.

People may look bad after this event ... they may have been breaking the rules in saying what they said, the only hope is that it is honest and supports the goal. Getting the Cry for Help ... answered.

I know you mean well by advising XF in the way of Community ... I honor your wisdom but in this case you will walk on the out side and not understand it... not till you sit for a while and understand. Maybe some one could really let you see what I'm talking about... but to say We should not be talking about improving our community is like saying it is perfect... instead we are striving to make it better each and every day.

Null wants the site to continue to be about community and raising the bar constantly.... Coyote feels Null will leave because people have forgotten this idea.

I do not know if you care of religioun or belief but XF carries a belief of fellowship.

[Mace]

chrstphrbrnnn I feel your point is valid on the way Forgehub is ran... or how it is currently ran that works for that community, but as you know... XF and FH operate on a few different ideas.

Yes I called for this thread to be locked and to allow only personal reflection of the issue but after sitting here and listing to the conversation of this community actually bring there issues to bare and resolve the issue in a good faith that we are still friends... is not so much an issue of place.

See you consider that each person should go to them privately and work out the issue privately... I agree it can be done that way but when Null or a few other members feel that we as a body collectively are not caring for one another it is not an individual that is to blame but the group. Yeah people point fingers and wag... I would even go to say people mention leaders... but as long as we can all see the issue and improve with a better resolve the community is the better.

People may look bad after this event ... they may have been breaking the rules in saying what they said, the only hope is that it is honest and supports the goal. Getting the Cry for Help ... answered.

I know you mean well by advising XF in the way of Community ... I honor your wisdom but in this case you will walk on the out side and not understand it... not till you sit for a while and understand. Maybe some one could really let you see what I'm talking about... but to say We should not be talking about improving our community is like saying it is perfect... instead we are striving to make it better each and every day.

Null wants the site to continue to be about community and raising the bar constantly.... Coyote feels Null will leave because people have forgotten this idea.

I do not know if you care of religioun or belief but XF carries a belief of fellowship.

...what? I see no point or recurring theme here...

[DeathsFriend22]

Jesus, It's as if AZN and Denominator both came back at the same time and started going at it again in this thread.

Now, I love XF. The site is great. Maybe the suggestions forum is dying because people are running out of ideas. When Reach comes out, we'll certainly have several suggestions to adapt to the new game, but for now, I honestly don't have a problem with a single aspect of the site, and don't see much that needs to be improved.

Now, about the "new members problem"...

Our community is expanding. As such, there are more people to interact with, and, as a result, time is divided among all of these people. While new members now may not get as much attention as new members did in the past, all it takes is a few posts, maybe over the course of a few days, to be familiar with the rest of the community. I see no difference now than there was before, when we were only a group of 20 or so people, save for more members and different names.

Anyways, that's my opinion on the subject. Take it as you will.

[Kenny M]

Way too completely miss the point. And you are one of the main people I was talking about too...

I probably shouldn't list names, but I think I will, otherwise there will be no way for them to get it through their heads. By the way, if your name isn't on this list, you may still be doing some stupid stuff, I just forgot about you. Don't worry, I'm not limiting the hate ;) . Now, to the list: Kenny, all you do is troll, I don't know if I have seen a positive post out of you yet. Mace. Quit pretending that you are so great, grow up, get some friends, and do something for this community other than posting graphics. Zack, site asshole isn't a good title, I suggest you change before I actually start to get annoyed. Blue, good job, you have made it off the list. I guess that is good for now.

LOL I troll because I honestly don't care anymore. If you go to my earlier posts before a lot of the people I hate joined I actually tried now its bleh, I mostly don't even post I just have the tab open if I'm bored.

[AceOfSpades]

LOL I troll because I honestly don't care anymore. If you go to my earlier posts before a lot of the people I hate joined I actually tried now its bleh, I mostly don't even post I just have the tab open if I'm bored.

See, now that's a problem. If you hate someone so much, just don't talk to them or get involved in arguments etc. with them. There's no reason to leave just because some people bug you.

And XF is definitely not a tab you should keep open for when you're bored. Go troll the B.net forums instead. Much lower IQ level. :)

[Boston]

I haven't been active at all over the past month, so I don't think I know exactly what is going on. I will say however, that Coyote is right. Let's not ruin what Null and others have created. In 2009, I wasn't close with many of my friends because I was working and out of school, and this place was my 2nd family. I looked up to Null, and even Holly. But it wasn't just them. Denominator, Psycho and others were always there, accepting me. I still remember so many late nights where us XForgers would be playing constant minigames and the like. I know I haven't been around lately, and don't know much of what has happened since then, but let's not ruin what we all have made. Let's keep it how it was during the past year.

[Coyote1023]

Honestly, from the perspective of a long time writer for a site I have to say this thread is fairly disgraceful, especially for one that is on a front page. Sure it's sad to see a site founder move on, or maybe you are having some behavioral issues that you want to address but this is an unprofessional way to approach it. More specifically the issue with this thread is the fact that you left it open to the public. It should have been easy to preempt the type of discussion that this would stir up, which is something in my opinion that shouldn't be on a front page.

Worse yet is that the person who created this thread, someone who is in a position of power, decided to create a petty list of people who he claims are "the issue with the site". It seems like the purpose of this thread was to drive your community back towards unity and stop the drama and arguments yet you segregate members and call them down on the front page of your site? If they are the issue, talk to them privately and personally. If need be infract them or ban them but attempting to embarrass them on the front page is not the correct approach.

You may not care for my opinions but if you want to solve your issues a thread like this certainly is not the answer. I would suggest it be deleted.

This isn't my first site I have been involved in. Actually it is my 4th I had power in. I will only count it as 3 though, because one of them failed pretty bad. In the other 2, I held moderator and then admin. Next, it is my lifetime experiences that reflect this view of mine. I have seen quite a bit in my lifetime, more than many of you will ever know. From this I know one thing, hiding the truth will get man nowhere. Let me give you a quote from Shakespeare's King Lear: "Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say."

Sure, there could be better ways to handle it, but I prefer to be as blunt as possible. There are very few, if any, problems that should be hidden from the public eye. Once you start hiding away your decisions, it leads to corruption. About the front page, it got everyone's attention, now, didn't it? Well, it served it's purpose, that is exactly what I wanted.

Next, about my list. These people haven't just started being problems, they always have been. There have been infractions, warning. PM's to these people. Do they listen? Of course not, what is an infraction anyways? It doesn't even matter after a few days anyways, then they can go back to their old trouble-making self. What, I should have PMed them? How would that work any more than an infraction, it wouldn't. How does it work here? Because now they have pressure from the rest of the site. It is like on a sports team. If one person on the team does something stupid, everyone finds out they did it, and they all share the punishment together. Will they do it again? Of course not!

To finish, I don't care if any of your disagree with my methods, I don't care if any of you hate me. What I do care about is that I am doing my job, making this community better. If I have to look like an asshole in order to make XForgery better, I will do it. If I had the chance to be demoted or even banned to make it better, I would take the deal any day of the week.