Election 08'

[Morphine]

Just out of basic curiosity I was just wondering if anyone had any interest in the upcoming U.S. presidential election. Hopefully, without turning this into an unruly shouting match I was wondering if anyone was willing to post their current views and subsequently their preferred candidate for the 08' election, maybe turn this into a structured yet friendly political debate... weather or not you're old enough to vote holds really no relevance, so don't be shy.

btw: I meant do you prefer... >.<

[CostlyAxis]

I'd vote for Republican almost unanimously unless the candidate is an obvious idiot. Most of the Republican views are more to my likings while Democratic views are generally not to my likings. It probably doesn't help I come from a line of Republican supporters either, but I do genuinely agree with their points.

However, I didn't really get into the Presidential Election thing that much this time, but I should for the next one since I will be of voting age. So my opinion is probably mostly null.

[Null Parameter]

I was also raised in a strong Republican family, but I tend to think more logically then my family who has the "They're Republican, so they are what's best" mentality.

For a while I was really rooting for Obama, partially because I liked him and partially because I hate Hillary. But lately I've kind of moved over to McCain. I am starting to really like Palin, and I've learned a few of Obama's beliefs that I have a hard time supporting (i.e. Post-Term Abortions).

So my opinion is probably mostly null. Vote for me for President!

[xInfamous2x]

Well then, i can only hope that this doesnt create any problematic debates, because we all love eachother... i meant that in the most least homo way possible.

anyways, my vote of course.. goes to Gloria La Riva.
im a socialist :)

[Morphine]

I was also raised in a strong Republican family, but I tend to think more logically then my family who has the "They're Republican, so they are what's best" mentality.

For a while I was really rooting for Obama, partially because I liked him and partially because I hate Hillary. But lately I've kind of moved over to McCain. I am starting to really like Palin,

I definitely come from a stronger Republican family but my sister and I have always been the non conformist liberals. Personally, I am very scared at the prospect of McCain becoming president. I have voted against Bush the last election and I am not very pleased with the current state of our economy, especially the US job market. Considering that in 2005, McCain reported voting 100% percent the same on all bills, and tallies high totals the rest of the years Bush was in office. I can only assume the country will continue in the current direction which has made us a mockery in the international community.

I am interested however, to hear what it is exactly you liked about Sarah Palin. After reading this article from a personal friend: http://www.crosscut.com/politics-government/17341 and seeing the interview where she said she doesn't fully understand what a vp does and doesn't know what the Bush doctrine is, I have been rather turned off by her. Not to mention she only has 1 and a half years of experience as a governor and 4 years as a major of a small town of 5k-9k people. Provided Obama only has two years in the senate but I also don't fully support him.

[Null Parameter]

Since I'm sitting at work, I didn't read the entire article. I read about the first half, and then skipped to the end with the summary.

I'm not in anyway claiming to have all knowledge on the subject as I never get too involved in politics. But from what I have seen about Palin, I tend to like. Trust me, in no way am I saying she is perfect, but nobody is. We haven't had a good Pres/VP in a long time, if ever, that has done everything they've said, especially when it comes to expenses and taxes. So personally, I find those points to be moot.

To tell you the truth, what I do like about Palin is the fact that she doesn't have much experience. In a sense, she hasn't been "corrupted". Plus, she tends to speak her mind, no matter what, which is a trait that is hard to come by. Plus, I agree with many of her standings, and applaude her for giving birth to a child with Down Syndrome; it just shows more of a strength that many people would lack.

[TheGrimPeeper28]

Vote for me for President!It's times like these I really miss the "Vote Null" button on the old site's polls.

[Null Parameter]

It's times like these I really miss the "Vote Null" button on the old site's polls.
lol, I completely forgot about that. I went back to look for an example, but couldn't find it anymore. (sad face)
/off-topic

[Kyyrbes]

The only difference between Osama and Obama is a little B.S. :p My vote goes to McCain.

[Denominator]

From an outsider position, I'll first point out that there are really only 2 options here. However, I think both McCain and Obama are improvements over Bush.

Given the current status of the Canadian government (more to come on this later), I lean towards Obama. He, and Democrats in general, tend to have better relationships with Canada. Bush has essentially ignored us for the past 8 years, which rather annoys me.

I also think it is a really good time for America to elect a non-Caucasian president. Given the status of the Middle East, and how I perceive most American's perception of non-Caucasians, it's a rather negative view. So I think having a non-Caucasian president would be a very good thing for America right now.

However, having a female Vice-President would be a very good thing for America right now as well, for much the same reasons. American politics is becoming very much an "Old boy's club", and given where I see the world going right now, I think that needs to change ASAP.

Now, much to my amusement, Stephen Harper just called a Canadian Federal Election last Monday (8th). It's set for October 14th. The current Canadian government is Conservative, for the first time in about 15 years. However, it's a minority government, which means the Canadian population is not entirely sure who to elect right now. A liberal Canadian government matches the views of a Republican American government, so my views may very well shift on October 14th.

Maybe I'll start another thread and see who here knows anything about Canadian politics.

[Morphine]

The only difference between Osama and Obama is a little B.S. :p My vote goes to McCain.

wow...

As for the Sarah Palin discussion, I do respect the fact that she gave birth to her disabled child however I don't really think that qualifies her for president. Any political figure who aborted their child under these conditions would basically be committing political suicide. Especially due to the fact that she is so strongly against abortions (even in cases of under aged rape victims). I do however fear that there is a level of 'corruptions' behind some of her moves on the oil and gas commission. she did correct a bill which taxed the oil companies 17 mil more a year but she does support drilling the the Alaskan national forests for more oil. Putting in danger several already endangered species. http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-mccainveepenviro30-2008aug30,0,6706698.story

[Defiance]

I would go for Obama.Honestly America needs a lot of change whether it be political or economic strategies.Right now it seems that Obama is trying to bring much change while McCain is sticking to a lot of Bush decisions as far as I have seen though McCain is more competent then Bush.

[Thomas]

Basically, for my vote, I don't worry about politics now. I'm too young to vote, even though I can still choose someone to favor with, so not having a voice isn't worth the troubles/debates for me.

I'll slowly pick up more on politics as I get old enough to vote, though. :P

[DeathsFriend22]

I'm with McCain. Obama is a first rate douchebag, with Biden in 2nd place. Wanna know something funny?

When Biden gave his speech about becoming Obama's V.P., he basically said that Hillary Clinton would have been a better choice. Yeah. The person that Obama practically slapped in the face with his VP pick. LOL.

Also, Obama happens to be a left-wing radical. Make no mistake that he's a Muslim, his middle name is only there because his father was a muslim, etc etc. At the same time, don't make the mistake of believing he's part of an ordinary religion. He's not.

Obama's "change" is bringing too many foreign ideals into America at the same time. He likes socialism, we don't. He likes higher taxes, we like lower taxes. The list goes on and on.

lastly, when people say "we can't afford more of the same", quoting from Obama's campaign ad, all I have to do is ask "well, what's 'the same' really mean? Explain in detail."
"uhh well...um...Mccain's speeches sound too much like Bush"
"And what exactly does Bush sound like? or McCain?"

That's where that look of blatant stupidity takes their face by storm, as they search for information that isn't really there. LOL I enjoy that, because it is so obvious how these morons are blindly following other morons.

/holy long post

[Ganye]

wow...

As for the Sarah Palin discussion, I do respect the fact that she gave birth to her disabled child however I don't really think that qualifies her for president. Any political figure who aborted their child under these conditions would basically be committing political suicide. Especially due to the fact that she is so strongly against abortions (even in cases of under aged rape victims). I do however fear that there is a level of 'corruptions' behind some of her moves on the oil and gas commission. she did correct a bill which taxed the oil companies 17 mil more a year but she does support drilling the the Alaskan national forests for more oil. Putting in danger several already endangered species. http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-mccainveepenviro30-2008aug30,0,6706698.story

I get so tired of hearing about how drilling in places like Antwone affects the environment and crap like that. It really doesn't affect ANYTHING. The oil in the areas of Antwone that they drill is literally seeping through ground at points. And what does it affect? Caribou? Bears? Wolves? There was a study of a Caribou herd that went through an Antwone drilling area for their migration: Before the drilling, the Caribou herd was at ~5,000 Caribou. After they started drilling, a few years later the same herd was at ~23,000. Guess what? More food for Wolves. The drilling doesn't affect Wolves, except for giving them more food, thus increasing Wolf pack sizes. As for the Bears, it really doesn't affect them, either. When a journalist was interviewing an oil driller, he said that the bears would actually play with the pipes and whatnot. They wouldn't damage the pipes at all. As for ocean-based drilling, honestly, how often does an oil spill happen? Nearly never. It's just that you always see them happening in movies. The only thing that would harm the oceanic environment is an oil spill and, as stated, those nearly never happen. I've yet to see someone give a good reason why drilling for oil in Alaska is bad.

[Morphine]

I'm with McCain. Obama is a first rate douchebag, with Biden in 2nd place. Wanna know something funny?

When Biden gave his speech about becoming Obama's V.P., he basically said that Hillary Clinton would have been a better choice. Yeah. The person that Obama practically slapped in the face with his VP pick. LOL.

Also, Obama happens to be a left-wing radical. Make no mistake that he's a Muslim, his middle name is only there because his father was a muslim, etc etc. At the same time, don't make the mistake of believing he's part of an ordinary religion. He's not.

Obama's "change" is bringing too many foreign ideals into America at the same time. He likes socialism, we don't. He likes higher taxes, we like lower taxes. The list goes on and on.

lastly, when people say "we can't afford more of the same", quoting from Obama's campaign ad, all I have to do is ask "well, what's 'the same' really mean? Explain in detail."
"uhh well...um...Mccain's speeches sound too much like Bush"
"And what exactly does Bush sound like? or McCain?"

That's where that look of blatant stupidity takes their face by storm, as they search for information that isn't really there. LOL I enjoy that, because it is so obvious how these morons are blindly following other morons.

/holy long post

Hey there, I think you need to relax and maybe we can try having a more mature discussion about these issues. The main thing that makes no sense about your post is you insult liberals by claiming they have nothing to back up their claims, then you go off claiming all these outrageous things about Obama without citing any sources. I am personally not a fan of Obama but some of the things you are saying are just blatant misinformation. Basically anyone who was following the campaign knows that Obama openly said he was not going to select Mrs. Clinton for the VP. After defrauding each others values & qualifications for the entire democratic primary, it would have looked a little confusing to the supports where each candidates beliefs actually focused.

As for Obama's religion, even if he was a muslim, which he isn't: Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/magazine/16wwln-idealab-t.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=Manjoo&st=nyt&oref=slogin&oref=slogin). Does it really matter what religion he is? I thought we evolved past ridiculing people for their religion a long time ago? Are you that religiously intolerant to not understand that religion is merely a stepping stone for instilling basic morals? Or do you think that all Muslims are terrorists?

Also please do not speak as if you are speaking for all of America. Some of us do understand that we sometime need higher taxes to support useful government programs and helps regulate our society and over powered corporations. Not to mention lower the outrageous national debt. Some of us do align with the ideals of socialism, not all socialist government behave like that of the cold war era, there are currently democratic socialisms in control in several places in northern europe and they are prospering economically and socially.

When people say that McCain is similar to Bush they mean he has voted the same as him in the past. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/27/mccain-voted-with-bush-10_n_103718.html) And judging by the current state of the countries economy you can easily realize we are headed in the wrong direction.

[Morphine]

I get so tired of hearing about how drilling in places like Antwone affects the environment and crap like that. It really doesn't affect ANYTHING. The oil in the areas of Antwone that they drill is literally seeping through ground at points. And what does it affect? Caribou? Bears? Wolves? There was a study of a Caribou herd that went through an Antwone drilling area for their migration: Before the drilling, the Caribou herd was at ~5,000 Caribou. After they started drilling, a few years later the same herd was at ~23,000. Guess what? More food for Wolves. The drilling doesn't affect Wolves, except for giving them more food, thus increasing Wolf pack sizes. As for the Bears, it really doesn't affect them, either. When a journalist was interviewing an oil driller, he said that the bears would actually play with the pipes and whatnot. They wouldn't damage the pipes at all. As for ocean-based drilling, honestly, how often does an oil spill happen? Nearly never. It's just that you always see them happening in movies. The only thing that would harm the oceanic environment is an oil spill and, as stated, those nearly never happen. I've yet to see someone give a good reason why drilling for oil in Alaska is bad.

While that might be true, it still does effect the environment because most of that oil will be burned to aid in global warming. Not to mention, it wastes money that could be invested in cleaner and more efficient energy technologies. Clearly we can't rely on oil forever. Also oils spills are a reality (http://www.marinergroup.com/oil-spill-history.htm), this just goes up to 2004 but it lists any major oil spill and there are more than a substantial amount. Also I think you might want to check to spelling on your drilling area, I've searched in several places for information on 'Antwone' and found nothing.

[Defiance]

Obama is definitely a Christian and he has been for some time.

[Ganye]

While that might be true, it still does effect the environment because most of that oil will be burned to aid in global warming. Not to mention, it wastes money that could be invested in cleaner and more efficient energy technologies. Clearly we can't rely on oil forever. Also oils spills are a reality (http://www.marinergroup.com/oil-spill-history.htm), this just goes up to 2004 but it lists any major oil spill and there are more than a substantial amount. Also I think you might want to check to spelling on your drilling area, I've searched in several places for information on 'Antwone' and found nothing.

I'm sure I've misspelled it, I've no idea how to actually spell it: Most of the stuff I've learned is verbal. And as for that oil spill listings you're showing, that's, on average, one oil spill every (estimating here) one or two years. That's really not that common. As for "more efficient energy technologies," the majority of efficient energy methods really are even less efficient and cost a lot more.

[Morphine]

I'm sure I've misspelled it, I've no idea how to actually spell it: Most of the stuff I've learned is verbal. And as for that oil spill listings you're showing, that's, on average, one oil spill every (estimating here) one or two years. That's really not that common. As for "more efficient energy technologies," the majority of efficient energy methods really are even less efficient and cost a lot more.

Here another article (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DE1D9143FF936A35750C0A9659C8B63) about how oil drilling is hurting the environment, from the ny times. While there are some disadvantages to current alternative technology, we are going to have to invest in these technologies eventually and the earlier we adapt the faster the technology will advance and less damage we will do to our planet. Also why does it matter where in the world the oil spill happens? due to ocean currents they negative effects can be seen around the world.

[Denominator]

Here another article (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DE1D9143FF936A35750C0A9659C8B63) about how oil drilling is hurting the environment, from the ny times. While there are some disadvantages to current alternative technology, we are going to have to invest in these technologies eventually and the earlier we adapt the faster the technology will advance and less damage we will do to our planet. Also why does it matter where in the world the oil spill happens? due to ocean currents they negative effects can be seen around the world.

You can even put the oil spills aside. Look at what is happening in Northern Alberta:

http://www.treehugger.com/2008-01-28_112012-TreeHugger-burtynsky-oil-sands.jpg
http://www.louisberger.com/berger/world/2007q2/oilsands.jpg
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/pix/oilsandsalberta_cp_4674936.jpg

Note the regular sized truck in the last one for scale.

Now, I know it's a wikipedia source, but this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_Oil_Sands) has a lot of information on it, and I checked out a number of the sources and they're kosher. Wikipedia was just nice enough to compile all the data into one place.

The amazing part is the production. As of the end of 2006, all the oil companies combined for 1.1 million barrels per day. That's ridiculous.

Here's (http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=482931) a story ducks that died in a tailings pond. Pond is a misused word in this context, when you stand on the edge of it you can't see the other side. It's the small one too. The other ones are further off the highway, hidden to the public.

Don't think the Oil Sands are affecting the environment? Here's (http://www.eco-can.ca/eco-news/2008/8/20/two-headed-fish-in-lake-athabasca-alberta.html) the two-headed fish they caught in the the Athabasca river this summer.

[Kyyrbes]

While that might be true, it still does effect the environment because most of that oil will be burned to aid in global warming. Not to mention, it wastes money that could be invested in cleaner and more efficient energy technologies. Clearly we can't rely on oil forever. Also oils spills are a reality (http://www.marinergroup.com/oil-spill-history.htm), this just goes up to 2004 but it lists any major oil spill and there are more than a substantial amount. Also I think you might want to check to spelling on your drilling area, I've searched in several places for information on 'Antwone' and found nothing.

Please don't use things that don't exist as leverage for your reasoning...

[Morphine]

Please don't use things that don't exist as leverage for your reasoning...

I don't really feel like getting into this debate here, mostly because you seem rather firm minded about this. But even Bush himself has stated he believes in 'climate change', and in the scientific community this debate is pretty much over. It's just people like this (http://www.factcheck.org/misleading-ads/scientist_to_cei_you_used_my_research.html) who want you to think otherwise. so, please don't state things without accurately backing them up.

[DeathsFriend22]

Hey there, I think you need to relax and maybe we can try having a more mature discussion about these issues. The main thing that makes no sense about your post is you insult liberals by claiming they have nothing to back up their claims, then you go off claiming all these outrageous things about Obama without citing any sources. I am personally not a fan of Obama but some of the things you are saying are just blatant misinformation. Basically anyone who was following the campaign knows that Obama openly said he was not going to select Mrs. Clinton for the VP. After defrauding each others values & qualifications for the entire democratic primary, it would have looked a little confusing to the supports where each candidates beliefs actually focused.

lulz well Clinton was certainly kissing Obama's ass quite a bit right after she suspended her campaign. you know, "full support behind Barack Obama" and all that. It seemed as though she expected to get that nice comfy V.P. chair when she made that particular speech.

Also, when i say obama's a douche bag, I'm 100% serious.

Sex ed in KINDERGARDEN?



As for Obama's religion, even if he was a muslim, which he isn't: Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/magazine/16wwln-idealab-t.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=Manjoo&st=nyt&oref=slogin&oref=slogin). Does it really matter what religion he is? I thought we evolved past ridiculing people for their religion a long time ago? Are you that religiously intolerant to not understand that religion is merely a stepping stone for instilling basic morals? Or do you think that all Muslims are terrorists?

Like I said, I realize he's not a muslim. I understand he's a christian. Not a normal one, however, like he would want everyone to think. The left-wing radical "church" he belongs to seems to hate America, demonstrated by reverend Wright (spelling?), his...reverend...guy.


Proof, And an example of how stupid obama is.

what a lying bastard.


Also please do not speak as if you are speaking for all of America. Some of us do understand that we sometime need higher taxes to support useful government programs and helps regulate our society and over powered corporations. Not to mention lower the outrageous national debt. Some of us do align with the ideals of socialism, not all socialist government behave like that of the cold war era, there are currently democratic socialisms in control in several places in northern europe and they are prospering economically and socially.

higher taxes for the rich, you mean? Obama is lowering taxes for the middle/lower class. All Obama's really doing here is falling in with every other Democratic president there is by lowering the taxes on mid-low class incomes and raising them for the high class incomes. I can't honestly say i see where any of his proclaimed "change" falls into place.


When people say that McCain is similar to Bush they mean he has voted the same as him in the past. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/27/mccain-voted-with-bush-10_n_103718.html) And judging by the current state of the countries economy you can easily realize we are headed in the wrong direction.

there's also such a thing as turning around too far. Did you know that obama voted to cut all funds from the war in iraq? i think I prefer having our soldiers over there keeping the terrorists on the defensive instead of the terrorists attacking the United States again.

Also, don't bother saying that "if we left the terrorists alone then they would leave us alone" because we hadn't done anything to them before the 9/11 incident, yet they decided to attack us anyways.

[Defiance]

A lot of your info is hypocritical Death...

[DeathsFriend22]

how so? explain.

[Defiance]

how so? explain.

Those videos were fun to scoff at they were just edited to make him sound bad XD

[Denominator]

How so?

lulz well Clinton was certainly kissing Obama's ass quite a bit right after she suspended her campaign. you know, "full support behind Barack Obama" and all that. It seemed as though she expected to get that nice comfy V.P. chair when she made that particular speech.

Source.

Also, when i say obama's a douche bag, I'm 100% serious.

Good opinion. Useless here.

Like I said, I realize he's not a muslim. I understand he's a christian. Not a normal one, however, like he would want everyone to think. The left-wing radical "church" he belongs to seems to hate America, demonstrated by reverend Wright (spelling?), his...reverend...guy.

Source.

higher taxes for the rich, you mean? Obama is lowering taxes for the middle/lower class. All Obama's really doing here is falling in with every other Democratic president there is by lowering the taxes on mid-low class incomes and raising them for the high class incomes. I can't honestly say i see where any of his proclaimed "change" falls into place.

First of all, of course he's going to fall in with every other Democratic president. He's a Democrat.

Second of all, source.


there's also such a thing as turning around too far. Did you know that obama voted to cut all funds from the war in iraq? i think I prefer having our soldiers over there keeping the terrorists on the defensive instead of the terrorists attacking the United States again.

Source.

Most of your points have no backing.

[DeathsFriend22]

really? I'm pretty sure that these words did come out of his mouth.

"but it's the right thing to do"

and

"I never heard him say this while i wsa in the pews of that church"
"did i hear him say these things while I was in church? yes."

lol it really doesn't get clearer than that.

[Denominator]

really? I'm pretty sure that these words did come out of his mouth.

"but it's the right thing to do"

and

"I never heard him say this while i wsa in the pews of that church"
"did i hear him say these things while I was in church? yes."

lol it really doesn't get clearer than that.

Context is everything. You can edit any film clip(s) you want to make them say whatever you want them to say.

[Defiance]

really? I'm pretty sure that these words did come out of his mouth.

"but it's the right thing to do"

and

"I never heard him say this while i wsa in the pews of that church"
"did i hear him say these things while I was in church? yes."

lol it really doesn't get clearer than that.

On the first one he goes on to say that "but its the right thing to do to allow for age appropriate sex education"

And on the second one when he is being interviewed he is asked about specific statements not if there was any controversial ones being said. It really was pretty obvious when you her them say these statements or this statement because that means they have a specific statement in mind when asking him these questions.

[DeathsFriend22]

Hillary's speech would be my first source. Look it up, I have soccer practice soon.


reverend wright - "God Damn America"
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4443788

Tax proposals.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/09/eveningnews/main4433097.shtml


Obama votes to cut off the war funds

http://www.911familiesforamerica.org/?p=1032

Most of your points have no backing.

they do now.

EDIT: Defiance, think about it. how much sex ed is "appropriate" for 5 year olds? how much would they actually understand in the first place?

EDIT 2: Be back later guys, i got soccer now.

[Defiance]

Context is everything. You can edit any film clip(s) you want to make them say whatever you want them to say.

Hillary's speech would be my first source. Look it up, I have soccer practice soon.


reverend wright - "God Damn America"
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4443788

Tax proposals.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/09/eveningnews/main4433097.shtml


Obama votes to cut off the war funds

http://www.911familiesforamerica.org/?p=1032



they do now.

EDIT: Defiance, think about it. how much sex ed is "appropriate" for 5 year olds? how much would they actually understand in the first place?

EDIT 2: Be back later guys, i got soccer now.

He never advocated actual sex ed for 5 year olds.It was about a bill he voted for that would warn kids from K-12 about sexual predators.Get your facts straight.

Also your second source just shows Obama is trying to help the economy.Honestly the United states is in a lot of debt now because of the war and bad decisions by Bush.Having 15% Taxes instead of 20% is not going to help anything if
A.People dont have much money anyway
or
B.Everything is too inflated to buy.

Basically what Obama is trying to do is to fix our country before we try and fix others, while McCain is trying to fix everything at the same time by budget propositions and sponsoring a war that has just been hurting us in the long run.

[Morphine]

there's also such a thing as turning around too far. Did you know that obama voted to cut all funds from the war in iraq? i think I prefer having our soldiers over there keeping the terrorists on the defensive instead of the terrorists attacking the United States again.

Because only terrorists come from the middle east? With the international community's stance on McCain we are only looking to make more enemies with his election. Not to mention, Obama although against staying in Iraq for as long as McCain, does support an increase in military spending (not that i agree with his stance but you can't call him soft on terror.)

[Murdock Sampson]

Nader is the only one with plans in case of alien attack. Also he supports the Grid, a much better form of the internet.

And also its "Election '08"

just a little FYI

[DeathsFriend22]

Because only terrorists come from the middle east? With the international community's stance on McCain we are only looking to make more enemies with his election. Not to mention, Obama although against staying in Iraq for as long as McCain, does support an increase in military spending (not that i agree with his stance but you can't call him soft on terror.)

Did I say that? No. the Middle East happens to be where the Taliban are centered, and the Taliban also happen to be run by Osama Bin Laden,who is not confirmed dead and has not been found. Staying in the middle east keeps the Taliban on the defensive, they've been reduced to pathetic car bombs and random shootings thanks to our troops in Iraq. Notice how few terrorist attacks in America there are now?

Fun fact: did you know that America created the Taliban to fight the Russians? They have our weapons, our training. by "our" I mean America's military, of course. 3 million weapons to use. then we as a country turned our backs on them, and they got pissed

[PsychoBucket]

Fun fact: did you know that America created the Taliban to fight the Russians? They have our weapons, our training. by "our" I mean America's military, of course. 3 million weapons to use. then we as a country turned our backs on them, and they got pissed

I'm not really sure I would call that a Fun fact.

[Morphine]

Did I say that? No. the Middle East happens to be where the Taliban are centered, and the Taliban also happen to be run by Osama Bin Laden,who is not confirmed dead and has not been found. Staying in the middle east keeps the Taliban on the defensive, they've been reduced to pathetic car bombs and random shootings thanks to our troops in Iraq. Notice how few terrorist attacks in America there are now?


No you didn't say exactly that but when you said that we need to keep our troops in Iraq to fight the war on their territory, so we don't have to worry about the fighting it at home. The inference is blatantly clear. More than likely one of the reasons that the attacks have decreased(if this statement is proven true.) Is that the security around our entire country has drastically increased.

Right now we are overwhelmingly tied up with most of our military's resources stationed in the middle east and a loss of those resources. We need to withdraw and consolidate our forces, we can not afford the amount of solders it requires to police the globe in the urgency that the war in Iraq warranted. There are far worse things going on around the globe we could be stopping or aiding against.

'Fun' Fact (http://www.greenleft.org.au/2001/465/25199): Reagan (Republican) was president while the U.S. government helped build up bin Laden.

[DeathsFriend22]

No you didn't say exactly that but when you said that we need to keep our troops in Iraq to fight the war on their territory, so we don't have to worry about the fighting it at home. The inference is blatantly clear. More than likely one of the reasons that the attacks have decreased(if this statement is proven true.) Is that the security around our entire country has drastically increased.

Right now we are overwhelmingly tied up with most of our military's resources stationed in the middle east and a loss of those resources. We need to withdraw and consolidate our forces, we can not afford the amount of solders it requires to police the globe in the urgency that the war in Iraq warranted. There are far worse things going on around the globe we could be stopping or aiding against.


So, while saying that our security has greatly increased, you're also saying that we have a majority of soldiers and funds going towards Iraq.

There was no inference present in my statement. Why worry about fighting the war in our own country, when we can take the fight to the Taliban instead? This way, we risk fewer American Civilian casualties that would be the result of having the Taliban come to us.

Granted, we do not need all 140,000 of the troops in Iraq to be there, but completely cutting off the funding for the war is not the right thing to do. If we were to pull out, we would need some troops to stay behind, and they would still need funding.

[Null Parameter]

If we were to pull out, we would need some troops to stay behindThat's What He Said.

[Morphine]

Granted, we do not need all 140,000 of the troops in Iraq to be there, but completely cutting off the funding for the war is not the right thing to do. If we were to pull out, we would need some troops to stay behind, and they would still need funding.

So you agree more with Obama then?

"The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 – more than 7 years after the war began." (barackobama.com)

"He strongly disagrees with those who advocate withdrawing American troops" (johnmccain.com)

That's What He Said.

Don't you mean TWHS?

[DeathsFriend22]

No, I don't. Obama speaks of completely removing our troops from Iraq. I say that we should keep around 50 thousand there, while pulling the other 90,000 out of Iraq.

[Morphine]

No, I don't. Obama speaks of completely removing our troops from Iraq. I say that we should keep around 50 thousand there, while pulling the other 90,000 out of Iraq.

Still your ideas are more aligned with that of Obama, McCain doesn't want to withdraw troops at all currently. You want to withdraw more than half, which is actually more than Obama currently wants to pull out...

[DeathsFriend22]

Still your ideas are more aligned with that of Obama, McCain doesn't want to withdraw troops at all currently. You want to withdraw more than half, which is actually more than Obama currently wants to pull out...

Not true. I want to take ot 90,000 troops by 2010. Obama wants all of the troops out by 2010.

Anyways, I really don't care for this discussion anymore because I really don't have a voice as far as the general population goes anyways.

[Morphine]

Not true. I want to take ot 90,000 troops by 2010. Obama wants all of the troops out by 2010.

Anyways, I really don't care for this discussion anymore because I really don't have a voice as far as the general population goes anyways.

Strange how you didn't mention your withdraw dates initially, "Granted, we do not need all 140,000 of the troops in Iraq to be there". I agree though there is no real sense in debating politics at such a young age. As you grow older you will probably gain a better understanding of our political system and your own personal beliefs.

[Thomas]

Strange how you didn't mention your withdraw dates initially, "Granted, we do not need all 140,000 of the troops in Iraq to be there". I agree though there is no real sense in debating politics at such a young age. As you grow older you will probably gain a better understanding of our political system and your own personal beliefs.
Which is why I don't really even read this thread but a little bit. :p

I could probably learn a fair deal about politics now, but it's not needed until a later date and has no benefit to me now so I'm not that interested.