Voting on Competitions

[UndoingChales]

For the last competition, the BTB, a lot of people were screwed over because of the voting process, me being one of them. I know i don't have quite frankly any say on this sight but i believe that i can help the voting process.
Instead of having a colored forum vote the top 5, let the public do it, or if there is a small amount of submissions, don't have a top 5 at all. Along with Gunnergrunt's suggestion, i think the amount of votes should not be seen until the end. I know somehow Null's gonna find something wrong with this, but its just a suggestion

[Null Parameter]

The one thing I see wrong with it is, as I already told you personally, getting a large group of people to play 10+, or even in the future 30 maps, is going to be incredibly difficult. This leads to lots of voting based on pictures and what other people have said, and not actual opinion.

While getting a small subset of people to do that is a lot easier. Therefore leading to better, more experienced results.

[UndoingChales]

k where did i say you have to play them? i didn't post that in this thread, and also i said it shouldn't be a supporter exclusive vote, just actually read the thread its not exactly like our conversation

[Boston]

Why would you assume Null will just trash anything you have to say. He has turned down my ideas as well, and I personally thought some of them were great ideas. I think Null does what is best and most efficient for this site. Anyways, wasn't this discussed already?

[Null Parameter]

k where did i say you have to play them? i didn't post that in this thread, and also i said it shouldn't be a supporter exclusive vote, just actually read the thread its not exactly like our conversation
I did read the entire thread, thank you very much.


You didn't say that people should have to play them, I did.

Why would 100 people voting for the Top 5 based on screenshots be better than 10 people voting on the Top 5 based on gameplay?

[UndoingChales]

no it wasn't
Gunnergrunt's version is different

[Thomas]

k where did i say you have to play them? i didn't post that in this thread, and also i said it shouldn't be a supporter exclusive vote, just actually read the thread its not exactly like our conversation
The way that our site is, a winning map has to have gameplay behind it and not just pretty pictures to choose from. Why wouldn't you want to have people build maps of quality and not just aesthetics.

When we moved the voting to where the supporters select the top five maps, it wasn't to make it unfair but try to get as little bias and weed through a lot of maps with ease. If a competition has few maps doesn't make it different from a competition where there are a lot of maps other than less people getting mad that they were chosen for top 5. If you really want to have more of a say in what maps get chosen for top 5, get supporter status.

[Null Parameter]

Instead of having a colored forum vote the top 5, let the public do it
I only commented on this item, not the part about Gunnergrunt's suggestion.

[Sage]

Just cuz you think your map should of made it doesnt mean everyone does or that the supporters do

and look how many people have voted imagine that number spread across the 20 or so maps submitted there would be several ties and the top5 would turn into the top 15

[GodlyPerfection]

The system is setup the way it is right now for a reason, I do agree that a bigger pool of voting would be great, but right now that is barely possible... we will be getting more Supporters soon. Until then the system allows people to nominate maps for feature. We would end up basically getting similar results when we allow people to vote for a Top 5 out of those. The Top 5's purpose is to weed out maps that should not be in the featured vote for one reason or another. It makes sure that there is quality in each of the choices. The problem with letting the public do it is that it will allow maps that do not deserve the spot.

Hopefully we can take this into consideration and try to be more diverse with the top 5... the problem is that the pool of nominations isn't really very big right now... we need more nominations people. Remember when we had like 35? We had quite the variety for the Top 5... but if the same things keep getting nominated, the same things will be seen in the Top 5.

[UndoingChales]

Just cuz you think your map should of made it doesnt mean everyone does or that the supporters do

and look how many people have voted imagine that number spread across the 20 or so maps submitted there would be several ties and the top5 would turn into the top 15
i'm imagining it right now and it looks wonderful

[GodlyPerfection]

Sorry Chales, but it would be too chaotic that way. We can't give the community full control or else things would get out of hand. This is a way to let you guys pick stuff, but control it so things don't go crazy...

[BabySmuggler]

First of Chales, you need to stop accusing people of rejecting your ideas before they can explain what they mean.

Correct me if I'm wrong but your idea is to let the 600+ members we have on this site choose the Top 5 Featured maps rather than the supporters and coloreds? The idea sounds good in theory but then again, so does communism. Letting that many people choose the Featured Map they want would lead to people either: spamming to make their map in the top 5; or voting based on how the map looks from the pictures posted.

Also, there is nothing wrong with the process they have now. I can see your complaint if the Featured Maps so far were not good and all Supporter maps, but they are not. The maps selected to be featured have good gameplay and why is that? Its because they were chosen for their gameplay, not just for their looks.

[UndoingChales]

First of Chales, you need to stop accusing people of rejecting your ideas before they can explain what they mean.

Correct me if I'm wrong but your idea is to let the 600+ members we have on this site choose the Top 5 Featured maps rather than the supporters and coloreds? The idea sounds good in theory but then again, so does communism. Letting that many people choose the Featured Map they want would lead to people either: spamming to make their map in the top 5; or voting based on how the map looks from the pictures posted.

Also, there is nothing wrong with the process they have now. I can see your complaint if the Featured Maps so far were not good and all Supporter maps, but they are not. The maps selected to be featured have good gameplay and why is that? Its because they were chosen for their gameplay, not just for their looks.
Communism doesn't sound good in theory, it sounds retarded, it sounds appealing to poor people, but retarded, and 600+ people wouldn't vote because 600+ people never do, xforgery usuallly has about 40-60 votes.

[Null Parameter]

Communism doesn't sound good in theory, it sounds retarded, it sounds appealing to poor people, but retarded, and 600+ people wouldn't vote because 600+ people never do, xforgery usuallly has about 40-60 votes.
Actually, Communism does sound good in theory. Everybody gets an equal share of everything, therefore nobody is left behind, nobody is poor, you'll never have any kind of poverty, unemployment or homelessness. That sounds pretty dang good to me (assuming I'm thinking about society as a whole and not just myself). But in practice, Communism blows because somebody has to have the power to distribute that wealth initially, but nobody ever gives up the power, thus making Perfect Communism nonexistent.

On to more applicable ideas...... Yes, 600 is a huge stretch, but still, even 50 people voting would lead to the same things. Again, we want maps to win based on gameplay, not looks and word of mouth; and getting 50 people to all play 10-30 maps to determine gameplay, and thus get a good enough opinion to vote, is never going to happen.

[Boston]

Chales, give it a break man. In theory your idea sounds good, but if it was put into play, it just wouldn't work out right. I like the communism take that Baby Smuggler and Null said. That's a good example. If you really want to look at it from a distance, the system will always be flawed, and can never be perfect. But we have to put out the best possible system we can, which is very similar to what there is now. Again, in theory, it sounds great, but in reality, it wouldn't work out the way it sounds.

[UndoingChales]

Chales, give it a break man. In theory your idea sounds good, but if it was put into play, it just wouldn't work out right. I like the communism take that Baby Smuggler and Null said. That's a good example. If you really want to look at it from a distance, the system will always be flawed, and can never be perfect. But we have to put out the best possible system we can, which is very similar to what there is now. Again, in theory, it sounds great, but in reality, it wouldn't work out the way it sounds.

on a side note, why would communism sound like a good idea? everyone gets equal everything, then where is the incentive to better yourself? in theory communism sounds like a terrible plan and has proven to be a terrible plan

also Null the community should have already played the maps through testing and custom games

[Coyote1023]

on a side note, why would communism sound like a good idea? everyone gets equal everything, then where is the incentive to better yourself? in theory communism sounds like a terrible plan and has proven to be a terrible plan

also Null the community should have already played the maps through testing and custom games

Chales, you are looking too deep into it. Communism is meant to be everyone working together to better their community as a whole. Yes, you pointed out one of the flaws. This flaw was supposed to be taken care of with the good will of the people, which would never happen. Thus, good in theory, bad in practice.

Now, onto the vote. Lets look at it this way: Elections, What would happen if political parties chose more than one candidate? Oh, wait that happened! The Democrats picked two candidates because half of them didn't support the other, the result? The Republican candidate won, not because he was more popular, but because the Democrats were too split. What am I getting to? If we allowed everyone to vote for every map nominated, it would be down to mostly luck. So, lets say that there are 5 amazing competitive maps nominated, 3 racetracks, and 1 minigame. Even if the mini-game wasn't that good compared the the rest of them, it would win, just because there are fewer of them and anyone who perfered minigames would vote for it. This would result in a great map being beaten out by a potential medeorce map. This also allows popularity to affect the vote even further. Since the colored members are supposed to represent the community, they will pick the best 5 maps out of them all, otherwise, some popular member would get his map featured, just becase many would vote for his, and the rest of the votes would be too spread out.

[Boston]

Chales, you are looking too deep into it. Communism is meant to be everyone working together to better their community as a whole. Yes, you pointed out one of the flaws. This flaw was supposed to be taken care of with the good will of the people, which would never happen. Thus, good in theory, bad in practice.

Now, onto the vote. Lets look at it this way: Elections, What would happen if political parties chose more than one candidate? Oh, wait that happened! The Democrats picked two candidates because half of them didn't support the other, the result? The Republican candidate won, not because he was more popular, but because the Democrats were too split. What am I getting to? If we allowed everyone to vote for every map nominated, it would be down to mostly luck. So, lets say that there are 5 amazing competitive maps nominated, 3 racetracks, and 1 minigame. Even if the mini-game wasn't that good compared the the rest of them, it would win, just because there are fewer of them and anyone who perfered minigames would vote for it. This would result in a great map being beaten out by a potential medeorce map. This also allows popularity to affect the vote even further. Since the colored members are supposed to represent the community, they will pick the best 5 maps out of them all, otherwise, some popular member would get his map featured, just becase many would vote for his, and the rest of the votes would be too spread out.

Well said.

[Fenian Bhoy]

Chales this has only been brought up because you thought your map is better than every other map just accept it, the supporters didnt like your map as much as others.

[BabySmuggler]

Now that I think of it, the community votes in every step except one. Nominations are chosen by the community. Then its up to the supporters to pick the top 5 and then what happens? The community votes on the number one map. 2/3 sounds pretty good to me.

[UndoingChales]

can we just close this?
obviously nothings going to change

[Denominator]

can we just close this?
obviously nothings going to change

Honestly, Chales, the biggest thing you have going against you is your attitude.

You continually spam the entire forum with your map, then go and throw a shit fit if it doesn't get selected. Despite reasoning against you, you continue to get angry and spin things off negatively.

You act as though everything needs to change the way you say it does and when it doesn't it because of anarchist moderators and administrators.

Next time, try suggesting changes as positive improvements to the site rather than personal grievances.

[Boston]

I agree with Denominator. Chales, I think your attitude is why most people tend to disagree with you, even if you have a point. I'm not saying I like the idea in this thread of what you proposed, but there is already a negative vibe when most people see you try to suggest, or argue rather, thing to improve on the site.

[UndoingChales]

ok thats why this thread should just close

[RightSideTheory]

ok thats why this thread should just close

Then request that Psycho closes it...

Also get off this negative thing, download firefox and use the spell check, and get over yourself and your maps.

[PsychoBucket]

Closed