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Gunnergrunt
04-22-2009, 01:09 AM
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww145/gunnergrunt/ConquestTitle.jpg




Hello Conquest fans! This is a guide to building a Conquest map for the beginner and expert alike. In this guide, you will be walked through the entire process of planning, forging, and testing a map specifically designed for the game-type, Conquest. The following guide is best applied for Foundry/Sandbox maps. For more information on the game-type, click here (http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-forge-maps/62192-complete-gametype-description-conquest.html). Here are Predecide's instructions (http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-forge-maps/34811-book-conquest-9.html#post740214) for building a Conquest map. If you are new to Conquest, would like to build a Conquest map, or you are in the process of building one, this guide is for you. The certification process for a Conquest map will be briefly covered as well. Here we go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZN FTW

Conquest Overview

Conquest is a territories gametype that is made to represent the constant push and shove of frontlines during war time. It was designed to focus ALL combat around one choke point at all times and require teamwork to progress forward. There is almost no chance to flank a team. To progress forward you must present more brute force than your opposition.







-Plan and Sketch
-Forge
-Test and Certify
-Post and play

[Updates and submitted layouts] (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25179&postcount=10)




Plan and Sketch

Every decent Conquest map begins with a design or a plan. Without one, the map often ends up plain or dysfunctional. This step is where most of the creativity should take place. There are an infinite number of ways to design a Conquest map. Every single object of the main layout should be pre-planned. This will help you foresee problems you will encounter later, in the forging process. This step is only for the structural layout of the map. Detailed planning will occur in the following section. During the planning stage, all the rules of Conquest must be considered.

Rules
I will once again refer to AZN FTW’s Conquest Description (http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-forge-maps/62192-complete-gametype-description-conquest.html), which clearly states all the rules of the game. But there are several rules which are crucial to the design of a Conquest map. The first and most important rule to consider is territory placement. A map should be designed for an odd amount of territories (either five or seven, depending on the layout and size of the map). Each territory should be large enough to be captured in the time it takes to transverse it. This statement refers to an entire team of at least four players, not an individual player. Because a whole team travels about 4 seconds apart at best, the first player will begin capturing the territory but the last player will finish capturing it All territories must also be touching, with no gaps or overlaps. Territories should also be separated by a door or turn, etc. This affects the map design in a number of ways. First off, the shape of the map must be selected.

Shape
Even though symmetry in a Conquest map is not required, the distance to the central territory should be equal for both teams. The map should also be fair and balanced on each side. For beginners, a symmetric layout is recommended. When the shape of the map is designed, break points should be the another main concern. A change of direction or line of sight between each territory is optimal. This will create choke points, where most of the action will take place. Most Conquest maps take the shapes of symmetric letters. These are the letters that commonly make up the layout of a Conquest map: C D M N O S U V W Z. Notice how each letter is symmetric with turns or beak points along its lines. Here are a few examples of Conquest maps with symmetric-letter layouts:


Conquest letters (take note of the break/choke points)


http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww145/gunnergrunt/Conquestletters.jpg






A common Conquest design
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww145/gunnergrunt/Conquestprelayout3.jpg




Same design with territories and spawn points (note: this layout involves elevation changes. The territories will not overlap when forged.)
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww145/gunnergrunt/Conquestprelayout.jpg





Theme
Once the shape of the Conquest map is determined, a theme should be considered. This step is optional, but players enjoy a well-themed map. Common Conquest themes consist of alleys, tunnels, canyons, hallways, etc. Notice how each theme fits the “single path” rule. Themes give the map life and character. It also gives players something to fight for. What is the point of fighting for a big square room made of blocks? Themes should give players something to fight for, an urge to conquer more land. Once again, themes are not at all required, but they make a Conquest map unique.

A well-themed Conquest map


http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww145/gunnergrunt/sm2.jpg





Sketch

The next step in creating a Conquest map is drawing the blueprints. This step is to create something to refer to while forging the actual map. The sketch, preferably a bird’s-eye view, should be very detailed and include the structural design as well as weapons, territories, and spawns. Save the sketch as it will be used several times along the way.

Google Sketchup
Another great way to take the ideas from mind to matter, is to use google sketchup. Be advised that this method takes more time and patience unless you are familiar with the program. In google sketchup, users can create three-demensional layouts using the same objects found in the Foundry/Sandbox pallet. Be encouraged to try out each method, and use the one you prefer to make a tangible rough draft of your map.


Layout
Start the sketch off with a rough outline of the map’s shape. Remember to keep all the elements of a Conquest map in mind. From there, draw the objects that will be used to create that shape. For this, it is recommended that you have a complete knowledge of every object in the forge pallet. After the sketch is complete, check for corners or places to hide. Also eliminate any place where flanking is possible. Have each choke point for the territories set up, along with a designated area for spawn points.

Territories
Once the entire structure is drawn out, add the territories, either with a different colored medium, or by lightly shading that area. Check that each territory is touching. Are there any places that a player would be able contest the territory without standing in the designated area? If so, make slight adjustments to the main design. If the territories are set up properly, the hardest part is over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZN FTW

Conquest Map Checklist

Quote:
Are all of your territories touching?
(players should always be in a territory when traversing the map... no huge gaps)

Do territories cover every inch of the flooring of your map?
(area behind and in front of cover or corners, the linear walk path, doorways, important rooms, etc.)

Are the power weapons for each team away from the center and close to the team starts?
(this is to allow players to push back if backed into their starting territories)

Are you utilizing the proper grenades for your map?
(spike for narrow hallways, plasma for wide areas, and frags for lots of twists, turns, and jumps)

Did you remove any spots in your map that you can hide in plain sight without sacrificing something important?
(places like corners near entryways or ledges above players still in a territory are good examples)

Do teams have to stick together while traversing the map?
(basically there should be no paths that split up a squad or seperate members from the group... like teleboxes)

Are all of your spawns on each team's start point set to the designated team rather than neutral?
(this prevents teams from being pushed back so far that they spawn in on the other team's side




Spawn Points
The placement of spawn points is crucial to the gameplay of every Conquest map. Because territories are natural spawn areas, placing an actual respawn area is unnecessary. It is preferable to include an area just outside sight of the first territory (but still within the boundaries of the territory) to place the spawn points. Each spawn point should be in, and point towards the main path. Draw in spawn points, and add directional arrows if needed.

Weapons
Finally, sketch the weapons into the layout of the map and label them. Remember that all weapons should be eye catching and easy to locate. Follow AZN FTW’s weapon rules for premium weapon placement. Select weapons that will be appropriate for the size and purpose of the map. Also, add the grenades in the same manner.



Here is a finished sketch (style and format will vary)
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww145/gunnergrunt/Conquestmaplayout.jpg



And another, used to forge forge the Conquest map, Drop Shock. This layout does NOT work for Conquest because of the two center paths.
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww145/gunnergrunt/Drop%20Shock/DropShockSketch-1.jpg




Forge

Forging a Conquest map is the most time consuming step. For some, it is the most enjoyable. Follow your original guides, but let your imagination and creativity take over. If the forging process becomes frustrating, take a break. Sometimes forging gets lonely, so feel free to invite a friend. This is also a good way to get suggestions and advice while the map is in construction. If you don’t want anyone to alter your map, remember to set the editor traits accordingly.

Location
Before you even start your map, the proper location must be selected. There are several elements to keep in mind while selecting the location. This is an important step. If the location is not well thought out, the map will encounter problems in the forging process. For example, Foundry’s crane should be considered while choosing the location of the map.

--Size

Give your map plenty of room. You never know when you will need more room for changes in the layout.

--Atmosphere

The overall feeling and theme of the map depends on the atmosphere. An atmosphere can be created in several ways. The best way to produce an appropriate atmosphere is to utilize the map’s natural lighting and geometry.
On Sandbox, each level of the map comes with different lighting. The middle layer of the map is the brightest, and most suitable for many Conquest maps. The Crypt is the darkest, and produces a completely different mood. This layer is also best for uses the lighting effects the forge pallet offers. The Skybubble possesses a twilight-like amount of light, and the atmosphere functions both ways. The natural sand dunes of Sandbox also fit many Conquest themes. (Remember to look for symmetric areas in the natural geometry.)
Foundry has more simple lighting. The side with the windows is brighter than the opposite side. Use this to your advantage. There are also many unique geometry options on Foundry as well. Try to incorporate them into your Conquest map.

Symmetry
If you have chosen to forge a symmetric map, it is best built in sections. Starting with the central territory is recommended. From there, work your way out, but do not progress too far with the construction of a single side. Forge one section of the map, then do the same with the symmetric opposite side. This way, you will not forget how one side was built. This technique keeps the map symmetric and exact.

Territories
As you go, place the territories in the designated sections of the map. Check that each territory will fit properly before progressing to the next section. Do this with every territory once the map layout is completely forged. If they do not have any foreseeable problems, begin placing spawn points. Here (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/Ah%20thank%20you%20Shadowsth%21%20Personally,%20I%20never%20number%20my%20territ ories%20in%20any%20specific%20order%20or%20set%20like%20you%20mentioned,%20but%2 0I%20think%20it%20is%20a%20good%20idea.%20I%20usually%20navigate%20simply%20by%2 0layout,%20judging%20which%20territory%20is%20being%20captured%20by%20direction% 20and%20distance.%20In%20the%20case%20of%20Messiah,%20I%20can%20see%20why%20you% 20chose%20to%20order%20them%20in%20that%20specific%20fashion.%20The%20layout%20i s%20a%20little%20more%20complex%20than%20most%21%20I%20will%20quote%20your%20com ment%20in%20the%20main%20guide,%20for%20those%20who%20wish%20to%20follow%20your% 20suggestion.%20%208/2-%20A%20link%20to%20I%20Shadowsth%20I%27s%20suggestion%20has%20been%20included%20 in%20the%20%22Forge%22%20section%20of%20the%20guide%20under%20the%20subsection,% 20%22Territories.%22) is a suggestion from .Timothy that concerns territory numbers.

Spawn Points
Because you forged the structural layout with an area for spawn points in the planning, this step is only a matter of placing them. There should be at least eight spawn points per side. All spawn points on one side should be either attacker or defender. Neutral spawn points are discouraged. Each point should be placed in or along the main path, pointing in the direction of the main path. Allow for an uninterrupted, three-second walk upon re-spawning. Do not place any weapons with that three-second radius. Avoid dramatic changes in elevation as well. Also avoid wall bumping and obstacles. Check each spawn point individually. Starting points are not necessary, because the first territory will act as an starting area.

Here is an example of proper spawn placement for Conquest.
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww145/gunnergrunt/OTE%20v2/74045305-Full.jpg




Weapon Placement
The last step in forging the map is placing weapons and grenades. Because Conquest is a fast-paced, short time limit game, weapons should be easy to located. Players should never spend more than a glance looking for a weapon. Weapons should be placed in, or along the main path, depending on the weapon. Refer to AZN FTW’s advice on correct Conquest weapon placement. Each weapon should catch the attention of the player. Make it eye-catching by placing it with interesting scenery or player-made weapon holders/shelves. A good way to make a weapon stand out is to place it on a contrasting texture in a unique position. Once weapons are well placed, your Conquest map is nearly complete. Only a few steps left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZN FTW

Weapon Loadout

As for the weapons, the point of Conquest is to present constant pressure on your opponents to push forward. To support this purpose we use rapid fire focused weapons with little single shot power. The only weapons present as powerful single shot weapons are either because of difficulty of use or the unavailability of the weapon. Here are the notable weapons for Conquest:





Brute Shot

One of the allowed power weapons. Due to the mass amounts of CQC and the choke point focus of Conquest the Brute Shot has the power to wipe out multiple foes making it a weapon to cherish in Conquest. Recommended placement is in the first territory on each side. This is so that if the opposition gets the second territory on your side you can fend them off with this power weapon.


Sniper Rifle/Beam Rifle





Due to the decreased damage resistance, you are no longer able to kill with one headshot. Despite that this is still a power weapon in the right hands, use it to completely wipe shields while staying out of direct combat. This weapon is also suggested to be placed in the first territory on each side for the same reasons.


Spike Grenades

One of the power weapons of Conquest. Sticking someone is still a one shot kill making this a lethal weapon. It is alot easier to stick someone in these close quarter situations as well. And the narrow hallways make it great for sticking to walls. It is preferable to place this in the first or second territory for each team. And preferably only present in one pair.


Frag Grenades

Because of lessened damage these aren't very powerful. However they are a much better grenade to use on maps with a lot of corners, jumps and verticality changes.


Plasma Grenades

A good replacement for the Spike Grenades for wider conquest maps.


SMGs

A mainstream weapon in Conquest maps due to it's massive clip size and it's effectiveness in dual-wielding and CQC


Spikers

Another mainstream weapon of Conquest maps... this weapon is less accurate with range, but due to it's blade it is highly useful in the collision of the two teams.


Plasma Rifles

These are mainstream, but almost considered a power weapon due to the lessened damage in Conquest... eliminating an opponent's shields followed up with a headshot is more desirable than most options in many situations.


Magnums

These make for a quick firing easily accessible headshot weapon. Very powerful when paired with plasma. You can normally find these weapons as last ditch effort weapons near the center territory.


Plasma Pistol

Not a common weapon in Conquest, but it has a similar purpose as the plasma rifles. But due to it having to be charged first, it is less desirable in high pressure situations.


Battle Rifle/Carbine

Again because of less damage in Conquest, these popular weapons aren't as powerful as they are in normal gametypes. However they serve as a good headshot weapon when someone else on your team is utilizing plasma weapons.


Needler

This is a unique weapon... because Conquest maps are specialized in linear paths with many turns and sections a Needler could be nearly useless as people could take cover quickly. However in wider/longer territories a needler can become a power weapon due to it's ability to "stack" damage quickly and delay instant kill.


Mauler

This weapon has not been fully tested yet... if the mauler does not kill in a shot/beatdown instantly then it is fair for conquest. If you have any information on this after testing it please PM me...





Weapons that shouldn't be on Conquest maps, mainly due to their one shot capabilities or their overpowering of other mainstream weapons on Conquest:




Shotgun
Rocket Launcher
Fuel Rod Gun
Sentinel Beam
Flame Grenades
Energy Sword
Spartan Laser
Gravity hammer
Flamethrower
Missile Pod
Turrets





Test and Certify

Now it is time to open the party and send out those invites. Set your party max size according to the size of your map, then message your friend for testing. Don’t be shy, everyone loves a new Conquest map!

Quality Matches
A testing session only works if matches are complete and consistent. If players leave half-way through a game, the test results for that round becomes invalid. If team are uneven or unequal, test results can become skewed. Players should also have a good knowledge of Conquest before the game begins. Patience is a requirement for a quality testing session.

Observe
During your games, take notice everyone’s reaction and comments. Observe how your map is played and take note of the rough spots. Is your map breakable? Do players understand the purpose of the map? Does Conquest function the way it is intended to? All these details should be recorded, for later purposes.

--Feedback

After a game, the creator of the map should give each player an opportunity to offer suggestions and present feedback. Take control of the party and give each player a chance to speak. Take note of the comments. They will be used to make adjustments to the map.

Adjustments
Every map will need improvements after the first testing session, no exceptions. Use the information you collected from the tests to make adjustments to your map. Sometimes major changes are necessary. Do not let this frustrate you. This step is important. Once all the necessary changes are made, repeat the testing process until your map is perfectly polished.

Certify

If you would like to certify your Conquest map, you will need to do so through the Xforgery Conquest Certification Team. The goal of the certification team, lead by AZN FTW, the creator of Conquest, is to perfect your Conquest maps. These maps are then added to the Xforgery Conquest Library. For a map to reach certification, it must follow all the rules of Conquest, and play Conquest perfectly.

Contact the Team
The first step towards certification is organizing a session. The creator of the map is responsible for getting the entire team together. The team, so far, consists of AZN FTW, Ell3ment, Coyote1023, and Gunnergrunt. Send them a PM or invite them over XBL.

--Time and Date
To set up a certification session, set a time a date, then send it to every member of the team. Make sure the session works for everyone.

--Test

First off, tests must be made. Once the certification team is in the party, invite friends to play the map as well. This will give the team a chance to experience Conquest on your new map. Make sure the games played reach the full potential of your map in its current state.

--Forge-through

After the tests, take the certification team into your map in forge-mode. This will give them a chance to check territories and spawn placement, as well as weapons (while
they are still in their starting positions).

--Save film

As the team forges through your map, they will make adjustments as they see fit. You do not have to save the map. Simply save the film to review their changes later. Then make the adjustments yourself.

Notes
Remember to take note of their comments and suggestions. They know what changes will make or break a Conquest map. Following their guidance will help your map unlock the true essence of Conquest.

Adjust
Once again, adjustments will need to be made according to the certification team’s feedback. Remember to save it as a new map. This way, you will be able to keep your own version as well as the certified one. But be aware that posting each version separately can be confusing. It will also diminish the quality of your map.

Repeat
After the changes have been made, invite the certification team once again. Go through the same process as before. If your map meets the team’s Conquest standards, the map will be added to the Certified Conquest Library. By this point, you may know enough about Conquest to join the team. If so, the team may invite you. In which case, you will then participate in the certification of Conquest maps.





Post and Play

The time has come to post your map. By this point, you will be eager to share your Conquest map with the community. But posting your map properly is important. To ensure the popularity and brand-name recognition of your new map, a decent post is recommended.

Describe
Include a well thought out description of your Conquest map. Mention its unique features and the way it plays with the Conquest gametype.

Decent Pictures
Conquest maps are difficult to understand by screenshots alone. In your screenshots, an overview should be included if possible. In order to do this, sometimes a ceiling or wall section will need to be removed (set at start: no). Remember those sketches from earlier? Now is the time to include them in your post. This will make it easier for others to understand the design and layout of the map.

Reply
Be prepared to answer questions and comments. And keep in mind that suggestions and comments will be made. Kindly reply to these comments and answer the questions. If someone sounds extra enthusiastic about your map, invite them for a few rounds of Conquest. Continue to play your Conquest map, and share it with the community.


I will keep this page well updated. If you would like your Conquest layout sketches included in the guide, submit them here. Feel free to comment on any part of the guide. If anything was left out, please say so. If you would like anything included in the guide, comment here. Discussion about the guide is welcome and questions are encouraged. Thank you for your time and support.

Now get out there and build a Conquest map!




http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww145/gunnergrunt/OTE%20v2/74043845-Full.jpg






(http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=69304085)Download Conquest (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=69304085)
Complete Gametype Description: Conquest (http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-forge-maps/62192-complete-gametype-description-conquest.html)
Book of Conquest (http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-forge-maps/34811-book-conquest.html)

MNM1245
04-22-2009, 07:56 AM
Wow this is great!

I have never really enjoyed making Conquest maps cause there was no proper guide by anyone who really knew what they were doing. This helped a bunch though and now I want to start a Conquest map :)

Bartoge
04-22-2009, 08:09 AM
Pretty good guide.

Here are a few suggestions/other things:
- I disagree with the whole sketching part. I do sketch maps, but not in depth. I use google sketchup. Its much easier and will help a lot more when you forge the map. Maybe you could add Sketchup as another way to sketch.

- Your sketches describe Foundry and Sandbox sketches. What about Pre-DLC? You could say something about HEATMAPS. I use them when forging, and most maps work well with them. Orbital and COnstruct don't from my memory though, but Epitath, and Rats Nest work extrememly well.

- I disagree about Spawn Areas. One time on Eurpathy I didn't have spawn areas. Well, one team like jumped over our heads and managed to capture our first territory. We then spawned over at out enemies base. We captured that and basically the round started over in my mind. I HATE when this happens, because it ruins the flow of the game. I know that territories act as spawn areas, but if that goes away, your left with nothing. If there was a spawn area, and the terrirory went away, the respawn area would still spawn you at your base.

Gunnergrunt
04-22-2009, 11:15 AM
Bartoge, if that happened during one of your games, you had a neutral spawn point at the other base. AZN mentioned this problem in his conquest description. If you have nuetral spawn points, the enemy team will spawn at your base if you push them all the way back to their starting location. So to avoid spawn problems, set all spawn points either to attacker or defender.

Also, i plan on adding a section about google sketchup (now included). I prefer the simple pen and paper method personally, as it is quicker and less complicated. But i will add a few tips for sketchup users as well.

And yes, this guide is best applied when forging sandbox or foundry maps. Because i have never forged a conquest map outside of Foundry or Sandbox, i left that section of the guide out. I am looking for anyone willing to submit a detailed guide for building conquest maps using non-foundry/sandbox maps. Bartoge, i know you happen to have some experience in that area, so feel free to include your tips and pointers. If they are agreeable and helpful, i will include them in the guide. Same goes for everyone else.

Thanks MNM, thats just the reaction i was looking for. Hopefully this inspires people to build their own conquest maps and support the conquest community!

MNM1245
04-22-2009, 03:50 PM
I also prefer Pen and Paper for planning my maps because then I can just sketch up map layouts in class show my friends at lunch and they tell me what they think and usually end up helping me forge a bit.

And I think I was with you when that happened a few days ago Bartoge. It was Skittles and the only reason we figured out was because we heard skittles talking on the mic saying "I'm just at there base and I captured there first territory.

Although before I get that Conquest map started I have to finish one of my maps ;P
I am making 7-9 now so I just want to get one done. I have one that I am pretty sure will get done first. And soon I hope

GodlyPerfection
04-22-2009, 05:48 PM
This is a great general map design with the flavor of Conquest built in... you had alot of my general tips in there, but very little specific details. A lot of this stuff I was going to add to the description when I got back... and what do you know? I'm here now... I have alot of catching up to do around the forums, but I have off till Monday so I will get everything done by then.

Thanks for taking the time to do this and I really like the layout section I will make sure to quote everything that you specifically said that I didn't teach to you. :P... lolz... and I like the idea of submitting their layouts, but eventually things would get crowded.

Anyways, I'm off to go respond to stuff... eventually I will get to updating the conquest description with info from this...a nd I will ssend you a PM with a few things to fix in here... and yes I read the whole thing...

Boston
04-22-2009, 05:59 PM
Damn I'm not the biggest fan of Conquest, although I have been into it lately, but it seems like you nailed EVERYTHING down to the detail. I never really thought of the letter layouts also. Great post for Conquest Rooks lol

Wailingjam
04-22-2009, 06:38 PM
Sweet, we finally have a guide for conquest maps, and btw I like the whole idea and fact that most great conquest maps use letters to make it. Never thought of that, which could be the reason why the ones I've made sucked, but now with your guide not only do I want to make a conquest map I want to make a beastly conquest map that surpasses all the rest, in other words unique.

Defiance
04-22-2009, 09:44 PM
This guide is god tier ;P
Thanks a LOT for the help.

Gunnergrunt
04-22-2009, 11:46 PM
[Updates]



A unique conquest layout. This one eliminates any chance of assassination by eliminating corners within the main path altogether
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww145/gunnergrunt/GoldRush.jpg

http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww145/gunnergrunt/75379301-Full.jpg



Messiah (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3210) by .Timothy

Another excellent Conquest map that follows a strong them of imprisonment.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/Shadowsth/Halo%203/confinement.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/Shadowsth/Halo%203/83954729-Full.jpg

GodlyPerfection
04-23-2009, 01:02 AM
I bet you my layout will eliminate assassinations much better :P... lolz... but I guess that sorta works, it takes a bit away from the sectioning off though and rounded off corners are harder to forge... and more frustrating...

Gunnergrunt
04-23-2009, 10:12 AM
Oh, we will see, we will see... Actually it sectioned off pretty well. There are door sections that are not shown in that picture. Its an interesting conquest map really. I'll be testing it today if you wanna swing by.

And remember to submit your layouts!

PsychoBucket
04-23-2009, 10:44 AM
Why do the spawn points have to be in a territory? Couldn't you put them a few steps before the first territory?

Gunnergrunt
04-23-2009, 11:13 AM
Every inch of the map should be covered by territories. But i dont think it would hurt to place the spawns just a few steps outside. But placing them inside the territory causes that team to contest their first territory upon spawn if they get pushed back that far. That way, the enemy team must keep your whole team eliminated to capture the first one. This is very difficult because of the three second invincibility repsawn traits. Just remember that the first territory is rarely captured, but it is possible. I hope that helps clears things up

Null Parameter
04-23-2009, 11:19 AM
Every inch of the map should be covered by territories.
I don't totally agree with this statement either. I think every Conquest map I've played on, including Cellars and The Station, have had the spawns back a little ways.

Gunnergrunt
04-23-2009, 11:26 AM
Hmm i better double check with AZN on this one. In his conquest checklist, its says to make sure all territories are extremely close together with no large gaps. But he also says the territores should be covering every inch of the floor. And players should always be in a territory while transversing the map.
The map should include an area specifically for spawn points. Like the area behind the shield doors in AZN's Station. Or the small area around the corner in the Cellars. On my map Of the Essence, there is a little indentation against the back wall for players to spawn out of sight and fire but they are still within the first territory.

DimmestBread
04-23-2009, 03:49 PM
That took a while to read.

Anyway, that is really sweet to have.

Now the one problem I've seen is every conquest map i've played on, including the cellars and station, does not have the territories set up so you can capture them when you walk through them. you have to stop. or you will end up running right through them.

Bartoge
04-23-2009, 05:20 PM
Thats because in order to do that, each territory would have to take 10 seconds to walk through. And if you were on The Cellars the map would take 70 seconds to walk through the whole thing. That is over 1/3 of the round and it would be quite boring because you would spend more time walking than fighting. The most time I see it takes from a map end to end is about 40-45 seconds and that long. Its not a problem, and if a map did do that, it would be a problem.

Coyote1023
04-23-2009, 05:34 PM
You should be able to cap it with a team of 4 without stopping, only the middle territory can be exempt from this (for the most part)

PsychoBucket
04-23-2009, 05:38 PM
Every inch of the map should be covered by territories. But i dont think it would hurt to place the spawns just a few steps outside. But placing them inside the territory causes that team to contest their first territory upon spawn if they get pushed back that far. That way, the enemy team must keep your whole team eliminated to capture the first one. This is very difficult because of the three second invincibility repsawn traits. Just remember that the first territory is rarely captured, but it is possible. I hope that helps clears things up

Thanks, I don't think it would hurt to place them a few steps outside ether. Like Null said, I think most conquest maps are like that.

DimmestBread
04-23-2009, 06:07 PM
Thats because in order to do that, each territory would have to take 10 seconds to walk through. And if you were on The Cellars the map would take 70 seconds to walk through the whole thing. That is over 1/3 of the round and it would be quite boring because you would spend more time walking than fighting. The most time I see it takes from a map end to end is about 40-45 seconds and that long. Its not a problem, and if a map did do that, it would be a problem.

But I just read the post and it said you should be able to capture a territory by the time you enter it to the time you leave it.

Gunnergrunt
04-23-2009, 06:49 PM
But I just read the post and it said you should be able to capture a territory by the time you enter it to the time you leave it.


That is true. But i'm not referring to an individual player, but a team as a whole. At best, an entire travels in a least a 4 second radius (approximation). So if you are the first to enter the territory, it only has to be six seconds long because the man at the back of the group will finish capturing it before he leaves. I'll go clear that up in the post (now updated), thanks

You should be able to cap it with a team of 4 without stopping, only the middle territory can be exempt from this (for the most part)

GodlyPerfection
04-23-2009, 07:16 PM
Actually the territories adjacent to the center territory can be any size as well, the reason for this is because you will be spending LOTS of time using the cover in that territory to try to capture the center territory... so other than the 3 center most territories all the other ones (the 1st and sometimes 2nd territories of each side) need to be long enough to capture without having to stop...

Gunnergrunt
04-23-2009, 10:16 PM
ah i see. So my information only applies to the first and possibly the second territories. I will include a few lines about the middle and adjacent territory sizes. Thanks much AZN. I need to PM you about some spawn issues that Bartoge discovered

.Timothy
08-01-2009, 12:08 PM
While I don't think this should be a requirement, this little tidbit might help forgers in future conquest maps.

When it comes to territory numbers, my suggestion should be one team will have odd territories (3,5,7,9) and the other team has even territories (2,4,6,8) with the middle territory always being #1. As the territories get further away from the #1 territory the number should increase as well. The spawn point should always be the highest numbered territory in the set.

For Messiah I have red team owning even numbers and blue having odd numbers. It doesn't really matter which team owns what number set but It makes things easier for teams to know which territories are being captured/taken. If I call out that blue team is taking red 3, seasoned conquest players will know that the red territory closest to center is being taken and indicates that the other team is advancing at a aggressive pace and defensive measures need to be taken.

While this is just a small little detail, it improves gameplay and communications in my book.

Gunnergrunt
08-02-2009, 11:01 PM
Ah thank you .Timothy! Personally, I never number my territories in any specific order or set like you mentioned, but I think it is a good idea. I usually navigate simply by layout, judging which territory is being captured by direction and distance. In the case of Messiah, I can see why you chose to order them in that specific fashion. The layout is a little more complex than most! I will quote your comment in the main guide, for those who wish to follow your suggestion.

8/2- A link to .Timothy's suggestion has been included in the "Forge" section of the guide under the subsection, "Territories."