The Truth about Mythic, Sandbox and Halo 3

[Null Parameter]

IGN was able to do an interview with a couple of Bungie employees. (Here's the interview (http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/950/950839p1.html))

For those of you who don't want to read the entire thing, I'll highlight some key points.



Sandbox

Considered a Medium-Large Map
Not as big as Avalanche, but way bigger than Foundry
New Forging Items

Tunnels
Different Sized Door Frames
Dynamic Lights
Kill Ball ("essentially a big sphere that kills anything that is foolish enough to enter")
Other "secret" objects


Budget is "$510 with everything placed on the map you see in the screens"
They want to get Sandbox variants into Matchmaking


Mythic Map Pack

There will be a 4v4 Team Mythic Playlist when Halo Wars ships
No release date is known yet for a Marketplace release
Will cost 800 MS Points
Once on the Marketplace, they will be required in

Rumble Pit
Social Team DLC
Social Big Team
Team SWAT
Team Snipers


Once on the Marketplace, they will be incorporated into Double XP Weekends


Halo 3

ODST is the last thing Bungie will release for Halo 3 (i.e. No more maps)




And here's some screenshots of Sandbox, for your enjoyment.

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/950/950839/halo-3-20090203091141836_640w.jpg

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/950/950839/halo-3-20090203091138273_640w.jpg

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/950/950839/halo-3-20090203091135195_640w.jpg

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/950/950839/halo-3-20090203091131430_640w.jpg

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/950/950839/halo-3-20090203091128258_640w.jpg

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/950/950839/halo-3-20090203091123914_640w.jpg

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/950/950839/halo-3-20090203091103774_640w.jpg

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/950/950839/halo-3-20090203091100430_640w.jpg

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/950/950839/halo-3-20090203091056446_640w.jpg

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/950/950839/halo-3-20090203091052540_640w.jpg

[MovingTarget602]

Wow, Sandbox looks awesome. Can't wait for it. Hope interlocking/geomerging will still be possible for it. If not, FH freaks will probably go crazy. The kill ball looks cool.

[Morphine]

Will this kill ball be adjustable? shape/size? Is it a movable object? This could have some interesting implementations, also the forging on it looks much more clean than foundry.

[Murdock Sampson]

I figure the size/shape would be adjustable. as for movable... i doubt it. That'd be cool though XD.

Just a rolling killing object.


And I've always wanted to make a tunnel map, but it takes forever to raise the groudfloor and then carve out pathways.

[Null Parameter]

Will this kill ball be adjustable? shape/size? Is it a movable object? This could have some interesting implementations, also the forging on it looks much more clean than foundry.
Limiting any of those things would completely limit its functionality. I'm sure that they are all adjustable. I'm just hoping that the "ball" part is changeable, where you can make it a Box as well.

[BabySmuggler]

Anyone notices some similarities? Big sand dunes, weird structures in the ground, big towers overlooking the map. It looks like a nighttime version of Sandtrap. Hope it makes up for it in customization options.

[PsychoBucket]

Anyone notices some similarities? Big sand dunes, weird structures in the ground, big towers overlooking the map. It looks like a nighttime version of Sandtrap. Hope it makes up for it in customization options.

Do you realize that all of those objects can be taken out, so you have a huge flat area?

[Null Parameter]

Do you realize that all of those objects can be taken out, so you have a huge flat area?
There's actually been speculation that the floor might be removable, because in the interview they talk about being able to build down.

[PsychoBucket]

There's actually been speculation that the floor might be removable, because in the interview they talk about being able to build down.

I hope so. I always wanted to have an easy way to make maps like blackout.

[Murdock Sampson]

There's actually been speculation that the floor might be removable, because in the interview they talk about being able to build down. Also didn't they say something about tunnels?

[Null Parameter]

New Forging Items

Tunnels




Also didn't they say something about tunnels?
Yep.

[PsychoBucket]

Do you see picture seven? Could that be the death ball? It looks like a new equipment item. I hope not because I would much rather have death barriers.

[Murdock Sampson]

Do you see picture seven? Could that be the death ball? It looks like a new equipment item. I hope not because I would much rather have death barriers.

at first i was like "weird explosion" but yeah I'm pretty sure its the death ball...


And also null I know they said tunnels. I was just pointing that out so that there was more evidence for "building down"

[PsychoBucket]

The grid actually goes through the objects, so I think that it will only be visible in forge mode.

[Null Parameter]

The grid actually goes through the objects, so I think that it will only be visible in forge mode.
Yep, that's been the consensus around Bungie.net as well, and also, people have brought up the Bungie Edge Acceptance Video, seen here

YouTube - Bungie's acceptance speech for Edge

Where around 1:10, they have a completely empty room with a blue grid across the floor and a doorway that seems to match the style and construction of the objects found in the screenshots.

[Null Parameter]

A second part of the interview (http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/952/952159p1.html) has now been released.

This part is just as, if not more, exciting than the first part.

Since this one is shorter, I'm just going to copy it over to here.......

As it turns out, the ground floor isn't the only section of this map to get excited about. Bungie also reveals what they were hinting at with their Edge Awards (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/898/898431p1.html) acceptance video. All of that and more in this exclusive interview.

IGN: What makes the skyward section of Sandbox so special that it deserves its own feature story?

Dan Miller: The "Sky Bubble" in Sandbox is something so completely unexpected and awesome that it will completely change the way people work with Forge. Instead of a standard single space to build and play on, we give you in essence two spaces that people can build on and even connect together. It gives players the ability to make the next Ascension or even Guardian 2.0! In the beginning, when we were thinking about the default Sandbox, we felt something was missing; we needed to give players something that they couldn't get from Forging any other level. The Sky Bubble infinitely expands on the variety of layouts players can make with Sandbox and will rock your mom's world.

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/952/952159/halo-3-20090206012555194-000.jpg (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/734/734817/img_6431755.html)
Oh boy. Click the image to head to the gallery for more exclusive screenshots.


IGN: Tell us about the upper level. What can we expect there?

Dan Miller: At first glance, the "Sky Bubble" is just that, a massive invisible pocket of skybox hovering over Sandbox. In Forge, players can access this bubble by switching into a Monitor and flying to a nearby teleporter. Once through, they will find themselves high above Sandbox with a grid that stretches out below them that they can place objects on. If players try walking or driving on it, they'll fall into the abyss and die. By creating a space that is more or less air, it changes a lot of the rules people have had with Forge and Foundry. No longer are people required to wall everything off so players can't leave the playspace -- the Sky Bubble will make sure that players won't find their way out of maps again.

IGN: How important will the use of vehicles be on the upper areas of Sandbox?

Dan Miller: Due to the open nature of the map, players can build stuff like Air Battles or Mongoose Race Tracks with aerial jumps. We've added a fair amount of air vehicles to the level so that vehicular combat is definitely possible. Just with our testers, we've seen a crazy amount of creativity in the sky bubble. I'm very confident that we're going to get game modes and variants that will blow us away with the Sky Bubble.

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/952/952159/halo-3-20090206012605164-000.jpg (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/734/734817/img_6431757.html)
Miss this jump and you'll be sorry.


IGN: All told, how much playable space is there in Sandbox compared to other big Halo 3 (http://xbox360.ign.com/objects/734/734817.html) maps?

Dan Miller: With the main and sky bubble spaces, I'm pretty confident this is the biggest map of pure playspace we've ever made.

IGN: How do you expect the strategies to differ on the upper level from the ground floor?

Dan Miller: I think that potentially one of the coolest things is that players can play on both spaces at once with the use of a couple of teleporters. I can imagine some crazy sniper games happening with players in the air vs. on the ground level. Also, I think Sky Bubble spaces will have to be built far more carefully to prevent players falling off the side to their death.

http://xboxlivemedia.ign.com/xboxlive/image/article/952/952159/halo-3-20090206012602476-000.jpg (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/734/734817/img_6431759.html)
You can play on both planes at once.


IGN: The last two map packs have both had levels designed specifically for use with the Forge. How well has the Forge community held up this long after release?

Chad Armstrong: The Forge Community has continued to grow, and we're constantly surprised by the variety of work Halo fans put on their file shares. We've long grown accustomed to our own community surprising us, but the breadth of work expands far beyond the original vision we had for Forge. Competitions are played on fully customized maps. Screenshots are taken with delicately built sculptures. The Forge fans of the world have developed tricks and techniques that have transformed Forge into something beyond our expectations, and Sandbox is our way of acknowledging that the community has raised the bar. Sandbox is actually the second map we're releasing that was built specifically with Forge in mind (the first being Foundry from the Heroic Map Pack), and we're really excited to see what the community will do. Sandbox is the biggest offering we can make to the Forge community without modifying the Forge itself, which unfortunately is not an option for Halo 3. Having said that, the Forge community has been an inspiration, and our internal bar has definitely been raised.

IGN: Speaking of the upper levels of Sandbox, when will we see more on Halo 3: ODST?

Dan Miller: Soon, my good friends, soon. In the meantime, enjoy Sandbox and the Mythic Map Pack!

[Null Parameter]

Sadly, it looks like the only way to transfer between the two areas is by teleporter.
But the Sky Bubble is Epic Win!

[thatdamnhippie]

My jaw is dropped and I can't wait untill March 3rd. I think I'm going to really start getting my forgeing down so I can be ready for this exciting new map. I'm an okay forger but there are way better out there, And I cannot wait to see what people can do with this. (:

[Denominator]

I wonder how using the Sky Bubble affects the budget. It's going to take some skill to be able to forge on both the normal level and in the Sky Bubble and keep it within the budget, especially considering you have no solid landscape to utilize in the Sky Bubble.

[PsychoBucket]

especially considering you have no solid landscape to utilize in the Sky Bubble.

I think the grid will be solid in forge mode, so it will be easy to build on.

[Morphine]

I think the grid will be solid in forge mode, so it will be easy to build on.

Yeah I can't image them making you save/quit just to place objects up there. the only bad this is you will have to geomerge objects into the invisible floor for certain effects, but this should definitely open up some interesting possibilities in forge.

[Denominator]

I think the grid will be solid in forge mode, so it will be easy to build on.

Yes, but the players can fall off in normal mode. So if you wanted a larger play area, you have to build a larger platform, whereas on the ground you would simply block it off further away. I can see major budget issues.

[DeathsFriend22]

true...I hadn't thought about it that way.

Anyways, i can see a GOOD lockout remake (as in Lockout, NOT Blackout) coming with this sky bubble thing.

[DeathsFriend22]

Sandbox item list and the addressing of issues (http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=17271)

With last week's reveal that there was *gasp* a second limit relevant in Forge play, we thought we'd bring a designer and an engineer in to talk a little bit more about the specifics of what these limits are, why they're built-in in the first place, and what they ultimately mean for those Forgers who will try to squeeze every last piece of scenery they can into Sandbox. Tyson Green and Jon Cable answered the call of the internet and created the short question and answer you see below. Read on to learn everything you never knew you wanted to know about Forge and keep on scrolling for a look at what you can expect to see in Sandbox's Scenery palette.

Limit Break

Q. What is the object limit and why does it exist?

Tyson Green: There are three limits in Forge.

The first is the inventory limit. This is per object type, and is what limits you to placing (for example) two Scorpions, or eight Warthogs. This limit exists because some object types are disproportionately expensive (in terms of memory or CPU performance) and the game would break down if you sold everything else and then bought as many of these as possible.

The second is the global budget. This is the combined cost of all objects on the map, and the limit placed on that cost. This limit exists to keep object memory and performance in line with the innate complexity of a map. A bug allows this limit to be worked around, which works alright with small numbers of players, but the budgets were selected based on more aggressive scenarios with near maximum numbers of players and splitscreen. The goal was to keep performance acceptably high even in those scenarios.

The third limit is a hard limit, imposed by the data format of the map variants. This limit is around 640, and every object initially placed (by Bungie’s designers) counts against this limit. On most maps this is around 200-300 objects, which leaves 300-400 object slots free for players to create and place new objects. There is no workaround for this limit, only judicious use of objects.

Jon Cable: The object limit is an internal "budget" the code has for slots for objects in the map variant. Every map variant has this number of slots, whether they are in use or not (but of course unused slots take up less memory on disk!). The objects that were originally placed on the map in its default configuration have certain slots reserved for them, and they can't be replaced by other objects.

Q. Is this some new mechanic that was added just for Sandbox?

TG: Nope. This has been around since launch. In fact, all three limits are described in the original Forge How-to document, posted around a week before Halo 3 was available in stores:

[url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=h3forgeobjects[/url]

JC: We picked this number thinking that no one would ever reach it. And indeed, unless you're doing some underhanded trickery, it's near impossible to reach it on all of our other maps because the limits on individual object types and total budget will stop you first. The fact is, there are *so* many objects you can place on sandbox that the extreme map makers out there will be bumping up against this limit. Part of the problem is also that there are more objects placed on Sandbox in its default configuration (see above), so if you delete them all and then start adding your own, you're wasting that space in the map variant.

Q. So, if it’s been there all along, why not just fix it, and why are you just now getting around to letting folks know about it?

JC: We haven't let folks know about it yet because it hasn't been a problem on any of the other maps. Sandbox's ridiculous number of placeable objects and its large number of objects in the default configuration suddenly make this problem relevant. As for "fixing" it, it's not really possible for a number of reasons. The main issue is that networking views objects slightly differently if they were part of the default map configuration, so it's not possible to remove the restriction that those objects have reserved slots in the map variant. Furthermore, there has to be *some* kind of limit - even with the current budget limits in place it's possible to pile objects together or do other things that generally makes the performance of the game suck. And even if you had infinite performance, there's not infinite memory on the machine, or bandwidth on a network. In general the fixed objects like building blocks don't take up any bandwidth during a game, but they do cause network traffic for someone joining in progress on a forge session. They're also not free to render, or free to store in memory. We have to balance all the use cases against each other.

Most people will never have to worry about the total object limit. You're going to be able to do things in Sandbox that you could only dream of before, even in Foundry. For those elite few, we know you know how to work under restrictions already. And if you re-use the objects from the default configuration, you'll be able to push that boundary a little further. But alas, it will always be there.

TG: “Just fixing it” would unfortunately require significant changes to many parts of the game, and this is generally not something we would be willing to do unless it was a defect having a very severely negative impact on the community. The possibility of new bugs creeping in is too high.

In addition, most existing map variants would likely be invalidated by such a change, eliminating a vast body of cool work.

The reason it is particularly relevant now is because Sandbox dwarfs even Foundry in how open it is to user Forging. It has a high budget and players are likely to encounter all three of these limits while working on the map.

Q. Should players attempt to devise ways to get around the limitation, what are some of the problems they could run into?

TG: A map may run well locally, with 1-2 players on it, but may then break down when 8-16 players are on the map, or someone is running in splitscreen. And our players tend to think large, devising maps and games for big groups where this can become a real issue.

On top of poor framerate, network performance can be hampered by excessive object counts and poor performance on the host. We want user authored map variants to work as well as Bungie authored variants, so that nobody feels like they might be making a mistake by downloading one for an evening of games.

JC: The worst thing that could happen is the game crashing. The least is bad performance. I don't believe it will be possible, but who knows? You're sailing into uncharted waters, and we don't have a map.

Q. Talk a little about the evolution of Forge. Are you surprised by its current state of functionality?

JC: Hell yes! I've seen some maps that must have taken days and weeks to get every little detail right. Things like the doors controlled by fusion coil "switches" just blow my mind. And it's even more impressive because it works within the relatively limited system that is Forge. And while things like "object interlocking" weren't intentional, it's pretty cool to see people using tools like that to make their maps even better. I do wish we had a better system for getting really great content out to the masses. Sites like forgehub.com are doing a pretty good job of it themselves, and Shishka is starting to roll fan-made maps into matchmaking so hopefully we will start to see more of what people can do.

TG: Very little about the Forge itself surprises me—I wrote the specs, and other than a bug or three, it does what we planned for it to do.

What continually surprises and amazes me is what people actually do with it. I’m looking forward to the release of Sandbox in particular, to see what some of our brilliant community Forgers do with it. It is so much more flexible than even Foundry was, and I’m sure we’re going to see some things we would have never even thought of.

[DeathsFriend22]

The Breakdown

The Three Forge Limits

Inventory - Per object. Limits the total number of any given item (i.e. Double Box, Spawn Point, Battle Rifle, et cetera)
Global - The "cost" of all objects placed on the map, represented in dollar form.
Hard Limit - Regulates the total number of objects that can be placed on all maps, regardless of type or cost.

Budget "Glitches" and You

Performance - The limits exists to guarantee solid performance. While subverting them may not ruin your smaller scale games, larger player counts, or gametypes that use too many costly objects, could result in framerate inconsistency, increased latency, or even crashes.
Matchmaking - "Glitched" maps are not allowed in Matchmaking for the reason outlined above.

The "Quick" Fix

Majority Rules - Most players will never have to worry about being hindered by the Hard Limit.
Consequences - Addressing the Hard Limit issues outlined above could result in more bugs and possibly the "invalidation" of existing player content.

The Final Word

Use it or Lose It - You have 640 total objects at your disposal, including the objects Bungie's designers have placed on the map in it's default layout.
Don't Canvas - Instead of making a blank slate by deleting all the objects, simply move them to the side while you build and you'll be in control of the full 640 objects.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Technical logistics taken care of by our dynamic duo, let's turn our attention to the palette you'll be using to make the things we've never thought of. Scroll down to take in Sandbox's scenery.

Tools of the Trade


SCENERY
38 WALL $5
20 WALL, HALF $5
20 WALL, QUARTER $5
20 WALL, CORNER $5
20 WALL, SLIT $5
20 WALL, T $5
30 WALL, DOUBLE $5
16 WEDGE, SMALL $5
16 WEDGE, LONG $5
38 BLOCK, LARGE $5
32 BLOCK, DOUBLE $5
26 BLOCK, TALL $5
28 BLOCK, HUGE $5
24 WEDGE, HUGE $5
16 RAMP, LARGE $5
20 WEDGE, LARGE $5
28 WEDGE, CORNER $5
20 TUBE PIECE $5
20 TUBE Y-INTERSECTIONS $5
20 TUBE CORNER $5
20 TUBE RAMP $5
18 COLUMN, STONE SMALL $5
20 COLUMN, DAMAGED SMALL $5
16 COLUMN, BLUE SMALL $5
16 COLUMN, RED SMALL $5
20 COLUMN, LARGE $5
20 COLUMN, STONE LARGE $5
20 BLOCK, TINY $5
20 BLOCK, SMALL $5
15 BLOCK, FLAT $5
12 BLOCK, ANGLED $5
20 CORNER, SMALL $5
12 CORNER, LARGE $5
20 STONE BRIDGE $5
14 OBELISK $5
18 FIN $5
20 RAMP, SHORT $5
20 RAMP, WIDE $5
20 RAMP, THICK $5
27 STONE PLATFORM $5
20 ARCH $5
20 SCAFFOLDING $5
20 WOOD BRIDGE, LARGE $5
20 WOOD BRIDGE, THIN $5
16 BARRICADE $4
16 RADIO ANTENNAE $5
32 FUSION COIL $5
16 PALLET $5
4 GRAV LIFT $10
8 MANNON, CAN $15
8 SHIELD DOOR, LARGE $15
8 WEAPON HOLDER $5
1 FX, NOVA $15
1 FX, PEN AND INK $15
1 FX, OLD TIMEY $15
1 FX, COLORBLIND $15
1 FX, GLOOMY $15
1 FX, JUICY $15
1 BLUE LIGHT $20
1 RED LIGHT $20
4 KILL BALL $4*
8 7-WOOD $2**
18 TIN CUP $2**
9 GOLF BALL $4**

WEAPONS

16 ASSAULT RIFLE $2
10 BATTLE RIFLE $2
8 SHOTGUN $2
8 SNIPER RIFLE $2
16 SMG $2
16 SPIKER $2
16 MAGNUM $2
8 PLASMA PISTOL $2
16 PLASMA RIFLE $2
6 NEEDLER $2
6 BRUTE SHOT $2
6 ROCKET LAUNCHER $2
8 SPARTAN LASER $2
8 ENERGY SWORD $2
4 PLASMA CANNON $6
8 GRAVITY HAMMER $2
14 COVENANT CARBINE $2
8 MAULER $2
4 FUEL ROD GUN $6
8 BEAM RIFLE $2
8 SENTINEL BEAM $2
4 MACHINE GUN TURRET $6
1 FLAMETHROWER $10
1 MISSILE POD $6

VEHICLES

4 BANSHEE $20
2 CHOPPER $20
2 HORNET $20
8 GHOST $15
4 PROWLER $20
4 MONGOOSE $10
2 SCORPION $40
2 WARTHOG $20
2 WARTHOG, GAUSS $20
2 WRAITH $40
2 HORNET, TRANSPORT $20


*Earlier updates indicated that there would only be two Kill Balls present simultaneously on Sandbox at any given time. Turns out we sold ourselves short. You get two pairs to play with. Go nuts.

**Aesthetic silliness only. No scoring. Just like the soccer ball.

[Morphine]

Tin cup and 9 Golf balls?! I might have to put off making my new map until these maps have surfaced. Considering their size they might be more suitable for the Hungry Hungry Hippos(with working scoring system) map I'm forging.

Also what's the difference between a hornet and a hornet transport?

[Null Parameter]

Tin cup and 9 Golf balls?! I might have to put off making my new map until these maps have surfaced. Considering their size they might be more suitable for the Hungry Hungry Hippos(with working scoring system) map I'm forging.

Also what's the difference between a hornet and a hornet transport?
I'm going to guess that there isn't a gun turret on the transport.

I can't wait to get a hold of the 7 wood. ;)

[DeathsFriend22]

what exactly IS the 7-wood?

[Morphine]

I can't wait to get a hold of the 7 wood. ;)

I have a feeling it's only going to be usable in forge by the monitor. It's probably a movable object not a weapon.

[Null Parameter]

what exactly IS the 7-wood?
In case you don't know, a 7 wood is a golf club.

[DeathsFriend22]

ah. Bungie says it's "silliness only". Look at the references at the bottom of my post.

*Earlier updates indicated that there would only be two Kill Balls present simultaneously on Sandbox at any given time. Turns out we sold ourselves short. You get two pairs to play with. Go nuts.

**Aesthetic silliness only. No scoring. Just like the soccer ball.

[Kenny M]

No crap stupid lol.

[DeathsFriend22]

I have a feeling it's only going to be usable in forge by the monitor. It's probably a movable object not a weapon.

^^^this is what i was referring to Kenny.

[PsychoBucket]

SCENERY
38 WALL $5
20 WALL, HALF $5
20 WALL, QUARTER $5
20 WALL, CORNER $5
20 WALL, SLIT $5
20 WALL, T $5
30 WALL, DOUBLE $5
16 WEDGE, SMALL $5
16 WEDGE, LONG $5
38 BLOCK, LARGE $5
32 BLOCK, DOUBLE $5
26 BLOCK, TALL $5
28 BLOCK, HUGE $5
24 WEDGE, HUGE $5
16 RAMP, LARGE $5
20 WEDGE, LARGE $5
28 WEDGE, CORNER $5
20 TUBE PIECE $5
20 TUBE Y-INTERSECTIONS $5
20 TUBE CORNER $5
20 TUBE RAMP $5
18 COLUMN, STONE SMALL $5
20 COLUMN, DAMAGED SMALL $5
16 COLUMN, BLUE SMALL $5
16 COLUMN, RED SMALL $5
20 COLUMN, LARGE $5
20 COLUMN, STONE LARGE $5
20 BLOCK, TINY $5
20 BLOCK, SMALL $5
15 BLOCK, FLAT $5
12 BLOCK, ANGLED $5
20 CORNER, SMALL $5
12 CORNER, LARGE $5
20 STONE BRIDGE $5
14 OBELISK $5
18 FIN $5
20 RAMP, SHORT $5
20 RAMP, WIDE $5
20 RAMP, THICK $5
27 STONE PLATFORM $5
20 ARCH $5
20 SCAFFOLDING $5
20 WOOD BRIDGE, LARGE $5
20 WOOD BRIDGE, THIN $5
16 BARRICADE $4
16 RADIO ANTENNAE $5
32 FUSION COIL $5
16 PALLET $5
4 GRAV LIFT $10
8 MANNON, CAN $15
8 SHIELD DOOR, LARGE $15
8 WEAPON HOLDER $5
1 FX, NOVA $15
1 FX, PEN AND INK $15
1 FX, OLD TIMEY $15
1 FX, COLORBLIND $15
1 FX, GLOOMY $15
1 FX, JUICY $15
1 BLUE LIGHT $20
1 RED LIGHT $20
4 KILL BALL $4*
8 7-WOOD $2**
18 TIN CUP $2**
9 GOLF BALL $4**

Truck :RIP:
Forklift :RIP:
Shield door, small :RIP:
Door :RIP:
Window frame :RIP:
Propane tank :RIP:
Stairs :RIP:
Fence Wall :RIP:
Fence Box :RIP:
Wire Spool :RIP:

[Null Parameter]

:o You didn't post the pictures that went with the article!

http://www.bungie.net/images/News/InlineImages/SandboxCutouts/midsection.png

http://www.bungie.net/images/News/InlineImages/SandboxCutouts/tunnel_corner.png

http://www.bungie.net/images/News/InlineImages/SandboxCutouts/forgeobject1.png

http://www.bungie.net/images/News/InlineImages/SandboxCutouts/forgeobject2.png

http://www.bungie.net/images/News/InlineImages/SandboxCutouts/golfclub.png
http://www.bungie.net/images/News/InlineImages/SandboxCutouts/random.png

[PsychoBucket]

What is the first picture?

[Null Parameter]

It's a 3-way tunnel intersection.

[Murdock Sampson]

Golfing?


Propane tank :RIP:


NOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Shell]

8 MANNON, CAN $15

What the heck is a Can-mannon?

[DeathsFriend22]

:o You didn't post the pictures that went with the article!



No, I didn't. I didn't feel it was necessary, especially since I posted the link to the article at the top of my post.

[Null Parameter]

No, I didn't. I didn't feel it was necessary, especially since I posted the link to the article at the top of my post.
But nobody is going to follow the link if they think you posted the entire article.

[DeathsFriend22]

Well next time I'll just put "Click link for pix!"

[PsychoBucket]

Why won't they tell us when we can get the mythic maps without Halo Wars?

[Morphine]

Why won't they tell us when we can get the mythic maps without Halo Wars?

Hopefully because they plan on releasing it very soon after. They are assuming people will expect a long wait so they can get more preorders. If the tell us 1 week or something of that sort, less people will contemplate the purchase.

[DeathsFriend22]

Hopefully because they plan on releasing it very soon after. They are assuming people will expect a long wait so they can get more preorders. If the tell us 1 week or something of that sort, less people will contemplate the purchase.

*crosses fingers in hopes that this is the tru7h*

[Null Parameter]

Have you guys heard the theory about a third level on Sandbox?

It's actually quite compelling, and there's a lot of fact behind it.

You can find the full article here (http://www.highimpacthalo.org/forum/showthread.php?t=50222), but I'll show you some of the interesting findings that show there may be an underground section to Sandbox.


XBL Marketplace Description
The description for the Mythic Map Pack (http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/games/media/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d8024d5307e6/?p=1&of=6&sb=1&did=0ccf0009-0000-4000-8000-00004d5307e6) on the XBL Marketplace gives us a pretty good clue.

The long-awaited Mythic Map Pack drops into Xbox LIVE Marketplace. Investigate Orbital’s abandoned hallways - before it was evacuated, the Quito Space Tether was heralded as the “Civil Engineering Monument of the Millennium.” Witness Assembly, where Scarab hulls loom overhead, being decontaminated in preparation for the city-sized Lekgolo colonies that will breathe life into the massive metal husks. An excavation site surrounded by deadly Forerunner defenses, the mysteries of Sandbox are hidden high above, deep below, and right before your eyes.Notice the deep below comment in there, we already know about the high above and right before your eyes, so what else could that mean?

Overview Pictures
If you look at the overview pictures of Sandbox, found here (http://www.bungie.net/Stats/WebMaps/richgameH3.aspx?g=968070178), you'll see that the skybox is labeled Overview Top and the main play area is labeled Overview Middle. Why would they name it "middle" if there wasn't a Bottom?

Heatmaps
If you look at the Heatmap (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Heatmaps.aspx) of Sandbox, you'll see that in the center of the map is a black hole, possibly leading down to the underground level.

Screenshot of Center
If you look at this screenshot

http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3/Screenshots/SB/H3_MP_Sandbox-FORGE-011.jpg


underneath the Warthog, you can see a center tile that looks like it might be a movable/deletable object to cover the hole.

Plus, if you look at any other screenshots of Sandbox that have been released, there is always something covering the very center of the map, be it a structure of some kind or a killball.


If Bungie indeed has a third level for Sandbox, they have gone above and beyond what people have expected. So, go check out that article for more evidence, and come back to tell us what you think.

Edit: It is basically confirmed! Somebody messed around with URLs on Bungie.net and was able to scrounge up this

http://www.bungie.net/images/halo3stats/maps/sandbox/006.jpg
http://www.bungie.net/images/halo3stats/maps/sandbox/006.jpg

[Kenny M]

It has been confirmed <3

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=17358

[Null Parameter]

There's been a few new articles posted about the Mythic Map Pack, as some people actually got to play them now, and publish their impressions.

Tied the Leader - The Sands of Myth (http://blog.tiedtheleader.com/article/868/the-sands-of-myth)
Has a good read on Sandbox.

Halo 3 Mythic Map Pack - An Early Look (http://nikon.bungie.org/misc/mythicmappack/)
Just a general look at the Mythic Map Pack.

IGN: Mythic Map Pack Hands-On (http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/954/954457p1.html)
The best of the three, because it includes some pretty good videos.
I would most recommend this video (http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/734817/halo-3/videos/halo3_Sandbox_Forge_021309.html); it gives you an idea of the expansiveness of Sandbox.

[Kenny M]

The videos on Orbital and Sandbox were amazing.

[PsychoBucket]

The skybox looks HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!

TWSSBTW!

[DeathsFriend22]

uuhh that really wasn't much of a TWSS. Just so you know ;)

[Null Parameter]

Anybody that wants to give it a shot, if you post here (http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227751) you have a chance to win access to the Mythic Map Pack on this coming Monday.

[MNM1245]

Sandbocks is gun be da shit! FH just posted an article on there thoughts on the new maps with a few of the maps made by Cosmic Rick(This one looks Epic) and a few others who I have now forgotten...

[Vinyl Hippo]

The FH article was pretty cool and I'm sure we'll see some interesting stuff in the next couple weeks made on Sandbox I

[Blue]

Sandbocks is gun be da shit!

It's actually Sandbox. I have no idea what a "sandbocks" is. XD

[GodlyPerfection]

klolz... I already have my maps.. they are pretty good and yeah... we will see some pretty crazy innovated stuff from this community...

[Scope]

You lucky bastard. =D

Let's hope so. This community has a lot of potential.

[GodlyPerfection]

Yeah the possibilities of innovation are ridiculous now... I think you guys will be very very happy...

[Zackj191]

I'm thinking of making a map using the crypt all the way to right before sky bubble

[GodlyPerfection]

It sucks... the sky bubble is actually seperated from the main area by like 20 grid squares high... (that's 10 single boxes stacked on each other)

[PsychoBucket]

Well it sort of had to be that way for they skybox to work. Maybe they could have seperated it by less.

[GodlyPerfection]

They could have seperated it by ALOT less... but oh well... I did alot of measurements this morning for the level design on Sketchup and I was surprised to find some of the measurements...

The skybubble is 10 singles high... and like 66 single boxes in diameter... OH SNAP!!! basically 132 grid squares in a perfect square...

[PsychoBucket]

Yah, there could be games at the boarder if the distance wasn't so far.

[MNM1245]

These maps are going to be the best most amazing maps ever.

[Zackj191]

HOLY CRAP!! That is so fu-king huge! I can't wait for tuesday!