2v2 Showdown Final Round

[AceOfSpades]

http://i48.tinypic.com/14incau.png
So are you all ready to figure out who you're going to have to beat the hell out of? Wait no longer.

I STRONGLY encourage you to read every word of this thread, as there is a lot of important information in it.

Below is the bracket for the XF 2v2 Showdown :: Round 4.
http://challonge.com/images/brackets/2v2_showdown_xf.png

This is the final round of XForgery's 2v2 Showdown. The teams in the final game are battling for the 1st place prize (The losers of that game will receive the 2nd place prize). The teams in the 3rd place game will be dueling for, well, the 3rd place prize.

Prizes can be seen here (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9287).

If you would like to follow the bracket as it progresses, here (http://challonge.com/2v2_showdown_xf) is a link to the Challonge! set-up.

So, Now What? Okay, so let's cut to the business. You know who you're playing against, you know how the bracket works, now you just need to know your battlefield.
FINAL GAME

http://i47.tinypic.com/2kevjs.png (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=113359807)
Welcome to Nexon, a skybubble map built by Vyctoriouz! Nexon is a long-awaited map, originally finished a few months ago. Since then, it has continuously gone through tweaks to make sure it plays the best it can for this tournament. Many thanks go out to Vyctoriouz for putting off the release of this map for this tournament. You will be playing XF 2v2 King (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=113360009) on Nexon for the final.



3RD PLACE GAME


http://i45.tinypic.com/apb29i.png (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=113893680)


Welcome to Enclave, an Orbital map built especially for this tournament by MetaWaddleDee! Enclave is different than the other maps that have been used so far, as it provides a much more close-quarters feel than the other maps. So, you may find that using your secondary SMG is more beneficial than the highly favored battle rifle. You will be playing XF 2v2 TS (http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=113359983) on Enclave for the 3rd place game.

___________________________________



Each team will play THREE (3) games on the map with the specified gametype. It will be best 2 out of 3. If one team wins the first two games, there is no need to play the third game (unless the one team REALLY wants to lose again ;) ). Submit your scores in your designated match-up thread. Match-ups will be posted in the Match Organization (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=105) subforum. Scores must be submitted by linking to the games from B.net. Any member of either team may do this.


So, when are we playing?Everyone will have a little over a week to get to know the map, practice, or just keep doing what you're doing before the real games begin. Below are the predetermined times that each team will be playing against each other for the 1st Round. Check your seeding in the above bracket.

4 v 10 - Sunday, August 8th @ 10:00pm EST
1 v 11 - Sunday, August 8th @ 7:00pm EST

Please, POST IN YOUR DESIGNATED MATCH-UP THREAD if you are NOT able to make your scheduled game and we will reschedule it. If you do not show up to your game and you have made no attempt to let us know that you were not able to make the game, your team will lose that round. Period.

HAVE FUN!


- AceOfSpades, Event Director

[l33tmeerkatslol]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Why don't we play the final round on Enclave, and the bronze match on Nexon. That way there's no advantage for the other team.

[Fenian Bhoy]

Hopefully this final is actually played.

[Defiance]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Why don't we play the final round on Enclave, and the bronze match on Nexon. That way there's no advantage for the other team.

Wow, there is a bit of a mess up here.
Change the maps for the sake of fair play.

[MultiLockOn]

Wow, there is a bit of a mess up here.
Change the maps for the sake of fair play.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Why don't we play the final round on Enclave, and the bronze match on Nexon. That way there's no advantage for the other team.
Enclave is freaking awful compared to Nexon, you have no idea. And Vyctoriouz and I actually kinda suck on Nexon, I really wish it wasn't the final round map, but I think we'll be fine.

[Defiance]

Enclave is freaking awful compared to Nexon, you have no idea. And Vyctoriouz and I actually kinda suck on Nexon, I really wish it wasn't the final round map, but I think we'll be fine.

Idc a different map should be chosen.
I don't think someone writing that they "suck" on a map constitutes as making it a fair and even game.
Vict made that map therefore he will have an advantage.

[Cerity Insighed]

You know, I made Threshold, but you guys were fine with playing me in the semifinals on that. Not to mention, like multi said, Enclave is aweful in comparison to Nexon, which really is an incredible map. Besides, you have plenty of time to practice before the match. I'll be glad to help you get ready, meerkats/Thomas. I wanna see vyc get beat on his own map. :P

[mista tipsta]

You know, I made Threshold, but you guys were fine with playing me in the semifinals on that.
Actually, every single scrimmage game I had with them so they could practice they just kept saying how unfair it is to play against the creator of the map in a competition.

[AceOfSpades]

Well, I wasn't going to not let Vyctoriouz, Meta, Kuroda, myself, and Cerberus participate simply because we made the maps.

[Vandal]

I think if one team believes the other has an unfair advantage because they have the creator of the map, there should be some consideration into changing, especially during the final game in the tournament. You don't want anyone crying foul after what seems to be one of the first successful tournaments on XForgery.

[Vyctoriouz]

You know, I made Threshold, but you guys were fine with playing me in the semifinals on that. Not to mention, like multi said, Enclave is aweful in comparison to Nexon, which really is an incredible map. Besides, you have plenty of time to practice before the match. I'll be glad to help you get ready, meerkats/Thomas. I wanna see vyc get beat on his own map. :P

This.

Give me a freaking break :mad:. You guys have plenty of time to get used to the map, and it's not like I have hidden teleporters or anything. If this is really that big of a deal, then you should have established that BEFORE we got to the final round.

But anyway, I wish the best of luck to Final Instincts. Hopefully these "advantages" won't alter our final round too much ;)

[Null Parameter]

This.

Give me a freaking break :mad:. You guys have plenty of time to get used to the map, and it's not like I have hidden teleporters or anything. If this is really that big of a deal, then you should have established that BEFORE we got to the final round.

But anyway, I wish the best of luck to Final Instincts. Hopefully these "advantages" won't alter our final round too much ;)


How were they supposed to know about it before the final round?
Several people, including l33t, brought up (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9608) the fact that they were against map makers playing their own maps in a tournament before this round ever came up.
If you don't think that you have an advantage on your own map, then what's the difference if you play another map? Obviously nobody would have an advantage then, and there would be no way to argue that fact.

[Defiance]

Well, I wasn't going to not let Vyctoriouz, Meta, Kuroda, myself, and Cerberus participate simply because we made the maps.

You don't you just use maps appropriate for the match at hand.
There are plenty of maps to use from XF.
Don't tell me you can't find some maps to use as replacements for matches with map makers in them.

[l33tmeerkatslol]

How were they supposed to know about it before the final round?
Several people, including l33t, brought up (http://www.xforgery.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9608) the fact that they were against map makers playing their own maps in a tournament before this round ever came up.


Exactly what I was going to say before I saw you already posted it.

Edit: It's a simple change that balances out both both the finals and the bronze match.

[Bartoge]

Why is the only other option to switch maps for the bronze and final? can't the top 2 teams just change maps. I actually like Encave because of its change of play style and would hate to switch to Nexon.

[Cerity Insighed]

Ok, a few things I want to cover here;

A) Vyctoriouz has been keeping this map, not releasing it for more than half a year JUST so that it could be used for the tourney.

B) If I had so much of an "unfair advantage" in the semifinals when we were playing my map, then why did you win? Is it because you're that much better, or is it maybe because I never had an advantage in the first place? Hell, you guys knew the spawns better than I did. I was hit by a spawn grenade at least three times in our games. Does that mean I can accuse you of an unfair advantage?

C) There's a reason why Nexon IS being used for the final round and Enclave is NOT. While both maps are good, truly the most competitive, balanced, and overall best map should be saved for the final round, where the two most competitive and most skilled teams will be facing. All those who had tested Nexon know that it is a great map, and that it is perfect for what it is being used for, the final round. Enclave is definantly a good map, but because of its design and tight corners, it's difficult for it to be considered very "competitive," at least in comparison to a map like Nexon.

[Defiance]

A) Vyctoriouz has been keeping this map, not releasing it for more than half a year JUST so that it could be used for the tourney.
Then use it in the Bronze match.
B) If I had so much of an "unfair advantage" in the semifinals when we were playing my map, then why did you win? Is it because you're that much better, or is it maybe because I never had an advantage in the first place? Hell, you guys knew the spawns better than I did. I was hit by a spawn grenade at least three times in our games. Does that mean I can accuse you of an unfair advantage?
You made the map and they didn't.They just followed the pattern of your spawns.
You did have an unfair advantage because you built that map and therefore know EVERYTHING about it.They just used their skill to cover the gap.

C) There's a reason why Nexon IS being used for the final round and Enclave is NOT. While both maps are good, truly the most competitive, balanced, and overall best map should be saved for the final round, where the two most competitive and most skilled teams will be facing. All those who had tested Nexon know that it is a great map, and that it is perfect for what it is being used for, the final round. Enclave is definantly a good map, but because of its design and tight corners, it's difficult for it to be considered very "competitive," at least in comparison to a map like Nexon.
You don't always save the best most competitive maps for the finals in a tourney. You just use which ever fits the situation the best.Also, this is mostly I "personal opinion kind of matter."

[Vyctoriouz]

Ok, a few things I want to cover here;

A) Vyctoriouz has been keeping this map, not releasing it for more than half a year JUST so that it could be used for the tourney.

B) If I had so much of an "unfair advantage" in the semifinals when we were playing my map, then why did you win? Is it because you're that much better, or is it maybe because I never had an advantage in the first place? Hell, you guys knew the spawns better than I did. I was hit by a spawn grenade at least three times in our games. Does that mean I can accuse you of an unfair advantage?

C) There's a reason why Nexon IS being used for the final round and Enclave is NOT. While both maps are good, truly the most competitive, balanced, and overall best map should be saved for the final round, where the two most competitive and most skilled teams will be facing. All those who had tested Nexon know that it is a great map, and that it is perfect for what it is being used for, the final round. Enclave is definantly a good map, but because of its design and tight corners, it's difficult for it to be considered very "competitive," at least in comparison to a map like Nexon.

This summed up everything I was going to say, so there's no reason for me to say it again.

If you want to change the map, go for it. I'm done trying to argue because this whole tournament is getting just a little too controversial. It was supposed to be fun for everyone, but then people had to start arguing about all the decisions made. Consider me out of this little debate; I'll play whatever gets put in front of me as long as it's a map suited to be a final round map.

[Null Parameter]

I'll play whatever gets put in front of me as long as it's a map suited to be a final round map.
So if you don't agree with the map decision, you aren't even going to play?

No words......

[Vyctoriouz]

So if you don't agree with the map decision, you aren't even going to play?

No words......

Oh yes most definitely. That's exactly what I meant. :facepalm:

I try to be a peacemaker and I get chewed out even more?

[Cerity Insighed]

Then use it in the Bronze match.

We have a bronze match map already. A map that my team likes, and the other team likes. Notice that my 2v2 partner, MetaWaddleDee, was the one who made the bronze match map. Notice again, how the Bartoge and Urban aren't complaining. Being the maker of a map gives you little-to-no advantage, And it seems like bartoge and urban understand that.

You made the map and they didn't.They just followed the pattern of your spawns.
You did have an unfair advantage because you built that map and therefore know EVERYTHING about it.They just used their skill to cover the gap.

There's a reason why the matches are at least a week apart from one another. It's to allow each team to practice and learn the maps. A week is more than enough time to learn all that you need to know about a map. It's not like there are hidden weapons or teleporters.

You don't always save the best most competitive maps for the finals in a tourney. You just use which ever fits the situation the best.Also, this is mostly I "personal opinion kind of matter."

Yes, it is an opinionated matter. And you can't argue opinions, so I won't bother.

The only thing that's really making me angry is the fact that we took the time to make and test five maps to be used in this tournament, and instead of being thankful, people are just complaining. Vyctoriouz went out of his way to make two maps for this tourney that he didn't have to make. Many of us did. And all we get in return are flames and insults.

[MultiLockOn]

Oh yes most definitely. That's exactly what I meant. :facepalm:

I try to be a peacemaker and I get chewed out even more?
This is Null you're talking to Vyctoriouz, he's going to be obnoxious no matter what.

I think it's really disappoint how much bitching there's been going on this entire tournament about stupid things like this. If anyone here can point out 1 advantage that Vyctoriouz has over the other team in this tournament that that our opponents could not get by playing one game on Nexon, tell it to me.

Through one game on Nexon they can...


Learn the weapon spawns
Map Flow
Jumps
Hill Locations
Safe Points

I don't want the smart ass remark 'No Multi, there's no way that can be learned in 1 game. It'd require at least 3!' As Vyctoriouz said, we didn't hide any secret teleporters in the map, the fact that Kuroda and Ace are out of the tournament and they made maps in it just proves my point. The reason I'm in the finals is because Vyctoriouz is an amazing player and knows how to work as a good team mate, not because of unfair advantages. Would you all say that Fritzer shouldn't be allowed in the MLG playlist because he made Amplified and Onslaught? No, he'd get killed against some of the pro's out there, Null's working against his own logic. If they have the skill Final Instincts will beat Team Octopussy. It's not a hard concept, and as I said earlier it's pathetic that you all are arguing about this.

[Vandal]

People are talking about it because people think its an issue. If you dont think it is, post it and be done. Don't call something pathetic if your arguing about it as well.

[Sir Shazmanoid]

More of this drama? Wow... I'll remember this before attempting to take part in the next XF competition...

I could talk about how maybe if Final Instincts think Vyc will have better map knowledge because he made it then maybe they should stop complaining and go out and practice on the map... Or I could talk about how I really don't think it's too much of an advantage at all... Or I could talk about how everyone is taking this Tournament too seriously, and how a Tournament at a friendly place like XF should be lightly competitive and fun, and not... like this...

But no, I'm not getting into this. It's not worth it. Good luck to both teams.

[Defiance]

This is Null you're talking to Vyctoriouz, he's going to be obnoxious no matter what.

I think it's really disappoint how much bitching there's been going on this entire tournament about stupid things like this. If anyone here can point out 1 advantage that Vyctoriouz has over the other team in this tournament that that our opponents could not get by playing one game on Nexon, tell it to me.

Through one game on Nexon they can...


Learn the weapon spawns
Map Flow
Jumps
Hill Locations
Safe Points

I don't want the smart ass remark 'No Multi, there's no way that can be learned in 1 game. It'd require at least 3!' As Vyctoriouz said, we didn't hide any secret teleporters in the map, the fact that Kuroda and Ace are out of the tournament and they made maps in it just proves my point. The reason I'm in the finals is because Vyctoriouz is an amazing player and knows how to work as a good team mate, not because of unfair advantages. Would you all say that Fritzer shouldn't be allowed in the MLG playlist because he made Amplified and Onslaught? No, he'd get killed against some of the pro's out there, Null's working against his own logic. If they have the skill Final Instincts will beat Team Octopussy. It's not a hard concept, and as I said earlier it's pathetic that you all are arguing about this.

Don't turn this into a Null hating party.L33t and I were the ones to start this don't take out your personal vendetta out into an argument.

[Urban Myth]

Ok... If this is not the last post about this arguement, I will be very disapointed in all of you.

Let me start off by saying, the maker of the map doesn't aquire an unbelievable advantage over the other team. The only way a severe advantage will exist is if the participants do not practice like they should be doing instead of agruing in a forum about this "unfair advantage." It's not Vyctoroiuz's "ungodly map knowledge" that everyone is worried about, we all know he is good and to play this card so late in the tournament is a method of trying to get an advantage over him. You can disagree and troll if you desire but tell me why the concern is more about the final match and not the 3rd place match. Meta is the creator of Enclave and his team is playing mine in the tournament, yet there is no complaints about that, not even from me and Bartoge even though we're at a "disadvantage." If anyone had a serious issue with the map makers playing in this tournament shouldn't have escalated so far into it. I also want to say that I don't find many complaints from the people actually in the tournament on this topic, the majority of responses are from those outside, "Oh it's unfair! Why are they allowed to do this? Waaaaaaah!" The participants are generally trying to enjoy this tournament and these arguements are just making things more stressful than they should be.

Also, a lot of you are not appreciating that people have spent time and energy into trying to bring what was suppose to be an enjoyable tournament to XF. :thumbdown:

[AceOfSpades]

Ok... If this is not the last post about this arguement, I will be very disapointed in all of you.

Let me start off by saying, the maker of the map doesn't aquire an unbelievable advantage over the other team. The only way a severe advantage will exist is if the participants do not practice like they should be doing instead of agruing in a forum about this "unfair advantage." It's not Vyctoroiuz's "ungodly map knowledge" that everyone is worried about, we all know he is good and to play this card so late in the tournament is a method of trying to get an advantage over him. You can disagree and troll if you desire but tell me why the concern is more about the final match and not the 3rd place match. Meta is the creator of Enclave and his team is playing mine in the tournament, yet there is no complaints about that, not even from me and Bartoge even though we're at a "disadvantage." If anyone had a serious issue with the map makers playing in this tournament shouldn't have escalated so far into it. I also want to say that I don't find many complaints from the people actually in the tournament on this topic, the majority of responses are from those outside, "Oh it's unfair! Why are they allowed to do this? Waaaaaaah!" The participants are generally trying to enjoy this tournament and these arguements are just making things more stressful than they should be.

Also, a lot of you are not appreciating that people have spent time and energy into trying to bring what was suppose to be an enjoyable tournament to XF. :thumbdown:
This.

Now if I wasn't going away in like an hour, I would be here to give this A LOT more thought. But sadly, I'm going away until Sunday afternoon with no internet.

I am NOT going to switch the maps at this point. As Urban said, how much advantage does making a map really have over the other team that can't be learned in a day or two? It's not like anyone's going to take the time to memorize spawn points etc. just for something as petty as 1600 msp and some XF points.

This is getting far too escalated, and I think I now see what contributes to most tournaments at XF not finishing/being successful.

That is all I have to say. See you Sunday.

[MultiLockOn]

This.

Now if I wasn't going away in like an hour, I would be here to give this A LOT more thought. But sadly, I'm going away until Sunday afternoon with no internet.

I am NOT going to switch the maps at this point. As Urban said, how much advantage does making a map really have over the other team that can't be learned in a day or two? It's not like anyone's going to take the time to memorize spawn points etc. just for something as petty as 1600 msp and some XF points.

This is getting far too escalated, and I think I now see what contributes to most tournaments at XF not finishing/being successful.

That is all I have to say. See you Sunday.
Amen. Peace out Ace. :cool: Now Final Instincts, stop complaining and start practicing. Vyctoriouz is getting hungry :P

[l33tmeerkatslol]

Vyctoriouz has been keeping this map, not releasing it for more than half a year JUST so that it could be used for the tourney.

He had half a year to practice this, compared to a week for us.

Would you all say that Fritzer shouldn't be allowed in the MLG playlist because he made Amplified and Onslaught? No, he'd get killed against some of the pro's out there.

He'd get killed because the pros play Amp and Ons way more than Fritzer does, making them better at the map. This is also 4v4, which requires more skill than strategy. If this was a 4v4 tourney, I'd be okay with it considering the map maker would have little to no advantage because it's more skill based, and yes, everything you listed would be learned and used by everyone within a few games of playing on the map.

Give me a freaking break :mad:. You guys have plenty of time to get used to the map.

Compared to half a year?


The less players you have in a game means the more strategy it takes to win, and less pure skill. That's why everyone knows 1v1s don't always show the better player. With 2v2, it's similar. Meaning strategy is more important than skill, and strategy is what you learn after playing on a map for half a year, something we can't compare to with a week of practice.

Good luck to Multi and Vyc, and hopefully the better team will come out in the end.

[Urban Myth]

If Multi and Vyctoriouz win then all hell will break loose :(

[RightSideTheory]

Yeah, but that wont happen so it's all good.

[MultiLockOn]

If Multi and Vyctoriouz win then all hell will break loose :(
Yeah, they'll throw out the stupid argument that it's because we knew the map. Therefore it's only fair if my team loses.

[MultiLockOn]

You can say that all you want leet but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. You and Thomas are just no match for Team Octopussy. :D

[meoswald]

Now Final Instincts, stop complaining and start practicing.
Yeah, but that wont happen so it's all good.

[Tim]

Just an FYI, you guys need to cut this mindless squabble or the thread will be locked. Try to resolve this situation in PM's, but not out in the public.

[MultiLockOn]

Just an FYI, you guys need to cut this mindless squabble or the thread will be locked. Try to resolve this situation in PM's, but not out in the public.
We're only messing around Timothy. It's just a little friendly trash talking :/

[l33tmeerkatslol]

Yeah, but that wont happen so it's all good.

Exactly. :thumbup:

[Jpec07]

Just a request to all of the participants: if you could save the game replays and put them on your fileshare long enough for me (or someone with actual video-making skill) to download them, it would be greatly appreciated.

[jameslieb1]

Umm I just DL'd Nexon and found that there's a Slayer starting point directly above the Skybubble grid, so when the game starts someone dies and unfairly loses a point. Please fix this before the final game.

[Phenomenal]

Umm I just DL'd Nexon and found that there's a Slayer starting point directly above the Skybubble grid, so when the game starts someone dies and unfairly loses a point. Please fix this before the final game.
You do realize the final game is KotH, not Slayer...

But I've never seen that happen before. I'll be sure to let Vyctoriouz know about that before he posts the map.

[Jpec07]

You do realize the final game is KotH, not Slayer...

But I've never seen that happen before. I'll be sure to let Vyctoriouz know about that before he posts the map.

It could still be a problem: I've seen stranger things happen. I also found a break on the map, but did a quick forge-fix to it and sent it to Vyc. Hopefully he sees it and reforges it to make it prettyish 'fore the tournament. (I used one spare piece I found floating under the map).

[meoswald]

team octopussy!!!!!